Panic Hardware in Turn of Century Bar

[Arcal]

I have a question about panic hardware in an old existing bar. Several months ago the fire marshal and I made a routine inspection of the local bars. He felt uneasy considering they were all connected, built of dry redwood and were built at the turn of the century. In each of the four bars we found the required second exit to have some type of deadbolt, iron bar or latch. Three of the bars are now in compliance, but the fourth is causing problems. The owner installed an approved, but cheap, door with panic hardware, but during an inspection two weeks later, to deal with other violations, we found that he had installed a metal roll-up door in front of the door with panic hardware. He said that this door would be paddle-locked in the open position during business hours (violation of Section 1008.1.3.5). We informed him that it needed to be taken down. He is appealing to the Appeals Board. I feel this was going to be a slam dunk decision, knowing the Board would flatly deny his appeal. The problem is, I just found out he is bring his attorney. I can anticipate the attorney is going to have two possible arguments. There is one that I cannot find an answer for, if there is a good answer. His argument could be that the panic hardware was not required when the building was built. Maybe we could not require the panic hardware, but definitely the deadbolts and bars across the second exit needed to come off.

Do any of you have a take on this?

Dean

 

[mtlogcabin]

Re: Panic Hardware in Turn of Century Bar

It doesn't matter when it was built it matters the date it became an assembly use. If you can document when then that paticular space became assembly then you have a starting point to work from.

 

[Gene Boecker]

Re: Panic Hardware in Turn of Century Bar

From a building code standpoint you have nothing as an argument; assuming that it was a bar and has continued to be a bar. The building code is only about new construction, alterations and additions. If its all been there, it can stay there.

It IS a Fire Code issue though. Section 1028.2 of the CFC (2006 edition IFC) states that required exits must be "continuously maintained free of obstructions or impediments to full instant use in the case of fire or other emergency when the areas served by such exits are occupied." And that "Security devices affecting the means of egress shall be submitted to the fire code official."

In my opinion, they can add the shutter if it automatically disappears whenever you open the door

 

[mtlogcabin]

Re: Panic Hardware in Turn of Century Bar

IFC 2006 1027.1 General.

Means of egress in existing buildings shall comply with Sections 1003 through 1026, except as amended in Section 1027.

Exception: Mean of egress conforming to the requirements of the building code under which they were constructed shall be considered as complying means of egress if, in the opinion of the fire code official, they do not constitute a distinct hazard to life.

It is the fire officials call

 

[Arcal]

Re: Panic Hardware in Turn of Century Bar

The fire marshal will be at the appeal. He was really hot when he saw the metal door and he is usually pretty even keeled. I will let him do most of the talking. He said he is going to bring a video presentation of a couple of fires in assembly locations. I know exactly what he has in mind.

 

[brudgers]

Re: Panic Hardware in Turn of Century Bar

My take:

Let the appeals board make the decision and don't invest yourself in a particular outcome.

State the facts as you understand them, and provide a professional opinion of the code's intent.

In my opinion, treating it as a matter of winning and losing is unprofessional.

Whatever the board decides, due process has been provided and that's what code officials should provide.

 

[cda]

Re: Panic Hardware in Turn of Century Bar

how long has this particular bar/ business been in business???

was there any vacancy time between this owner and last owner??

are there only two exits out of the bar

what is the occupant load

do other businesses in you ahj use security doors over exit doors??? and do you allow them to do it???

 

[Arcal]

Re: Panic Hardware in Turn of Century Bar

how long has this particular bar/ business been in business??? Since the turn of the century

was there any vacancy time between this owner and last owner?? Not to my knowledge

are there only two exits out of the bar Yes

what is the occupant load Over 100

do other businesses in you ahj use security doors over exit doors??? Not to my knowledge and do you allow them to do it??? Not in A occupancies

I'm going to let the Fire Marshal deal with it and not worry about it. I am pretty sure I know the direction the Appeals Board will take. They all know the code pretty well.

 

[JBI]

Re: Panic Hardware in Turn of Century Bar

Just my $0.02... If the bolt or latch that you originally cited was original to the turn of the century (turn of the LAST century I presume?) or legal at the time it was installed, the owner may have a case.

If the door was ALTERED to include the non-compliant hardware at a time it was not legal, full compliance with the Code is required.

 

[fatboy]

Re: Panic Hardware in Turn of Century Bar

I think your IFC and your Fire Marshall should carry the day with the Appeals Board.

 

[Builder Bob]

Re: Panic Hardware in Turn of Century Bar

The owner installed an approved, but cheap, door with panic hardware, but during an inspection two weeks later, to deal with other violations, we found that he had installed a metal roll-up door in front of the door with panic hardware.

Case closed - Even in IBC Chapter 34, all new construction has to comply with the current code as it is written - IBC 3403.1

That door (existing) lost its frandfather clause when the door was replaced with an "approved, but cheap, door with panic hardware".

The security grill was not an original (historic) part of the building either - It would have to meet the requirements of the current code when installed (it is not a repair or replace), it is an addition to the building - The security gate would have to meet the code requirements of the building and/or fire codes when it was installed --

The historic provision of the code only applies when:

* The building is on a historic register

* The building is legal (I.e. CO issued)

Any work done is permitted ----

To ensure the historic character of the building is maintained ---- I am sure that the older buildings of the 1700's and 1800's has steel overhead shutters for security ---- If I remember corrrectly, they had heavy wooden shutters that they would close and peg lock from the inside.

 

[brat]

Re: Panic Hardware in Turn of Century Bar

Here's a silly question: Did they bother to get a permit to install the door?