Parking sign too low? See you in court!

[conarb]

I'm not sure what the hangup is with Einstein, or what you are trying to prove by making it a mission to prove me wrong. But I think it has done quite the opposite. My comments are vaild, as is my point. I will stand by what I said.

Filthy:

Handler has made it his mission to use this forum to promote George Soros' financed ADA, Soros also finances #blacklivesmatter, Hillary Clinton, the U.S. Invasions of Libya and Syria to release Muslims throughout Europe and destroy what's left of Western Civilization for the Rockefeller/Rothschild One World Order government, Mark Handler is a citizen of the world who is doing his part to destroy our sovereign nation.

 

[ADAguy]

Easy Viking, this is not the place to impunge MH. His contributions to this forum are appreciated and keep us on point. He produces facts, not aquisations.

Did you ever belong to the John Birch Society?

 

[conarb]

Easy Viking, this is not the place to impunge MH. His contributions to this forum are appreciated and keep us on point. He produces facts, not aquisations.

Did you ever belong to the John Birch Society?

No, but I have a degree in philosophy form Stanford, with emphasis on epistemology, here is Soros' Open Society site on disability, I think Handler has destroyed this forum with his obsession with disability and nit-picking, I thought I was alone but see that finally Filthy McNasty has seen through him.

For your information Soros attended the London School of Economics when the philosopher Karl Popper was teaching there, Popper and Soros advocate an open society or world without borders and egalitarianism, as opposed to the meritocracy we have now.

You tell me, what is Handler's obsession with ADA? Why is he such a nit-picker for detail? Filthy brings up his obsession with Einstein, why? Who cares if a sign is 1" too high? If you haven't noticed we just elected a President to reduce and reform regulations.

 

[JPohling]

I completely appreciate all of the information provided by MH on accessibility as it is beneficial to me on a daily basis.
I do not appreciate unwanted political discussions on a building code forum.

 

[ADAguy]

Con appears to believe that a society without rules can thrive and grow, why then were the Ten Commandments and Hammurabis's laws written?
Does not the existence of a society require leadership and laws?

Our Forum exists to discuss "reasonable" solutions to codes lacking prescriptive direction.

My son to is a Phil major too but it has not hindered his advancement in society or the IT world, only his disappointment with decisions made by "others" over whom he has no control and who don't care about the consequences of their actions..

 

[conarb]

I am merely supporting Filthy in his objections to MH:

I'm not sure what the hangup is with Einstein, or what you are trying to prove by making it a mission to prove me wrong. But I think it has done quite the opposite. My comments are vaild, as is my point. I will stand by what I said.

Filthy is trying to make a reasonable interpretation to an inch on a sign, MH is demanding an unreasonable letter of the law interpretation, I had lunch with another attorney today and brought this up, his comment was "take it to court any judge will throw it out", the problem is it costs a lot of money to take things to court so people are blackmailed into doing whatever any unreasonable inspector demands.

I do not appreciate unwanted political discussions on a building code forum

The problem is codes are now political, if Trump makes good on his promise to wipe out 70% of ADA regulations this forum should be Exhibit A, even inspectors argue about the interpretation of the regulations. I ask again why? Why has ADA become the dominate subject of this forum? The last I looked this was a Building Code Forum, not an ADA forum.

 

[Filthy McNasty]

I do like and enjoy the ADA, though. I don't take it as political. I won't get into my personal details, but I know what it is like not to be able to walk...or to have to look for the nearest bench because I don't know at what point in time I might just collapse. Can't go further than that (I don't post personal info on the web), but I can say now -- that everything is A OK. My father in Cleveland rebuilt me, and I am iron man. My father is a specialist in adult reconstruction. Seriously, I would not mess with me. I am bionic. I am better and stronger than I was before. I have no restrictions. So I feel for these people. I've been in their shoes, so I can relate to ADA laws and why they were created in the first place. We have to do something for these people....I think that is the spirit that ADA was created.

That being said, originally there was no requirement for a parking sign. Even with the 2010 ADA, there are some business that don't even require a parking sign. This was a heated and contested issue with the access board, but nevertheless, in the end - some businesses do not have to put up a sign.

Which brings me back to my original point. Unless you have a natural "feel" for ADA and it's purpose, you can never be a good inspector or interpreter of these seemingly mind-boggling regulations. Pulling into a parking space is fluid. Nothing stays the same. The letters and the heights change with every centimeter that the car enters the stall. So I know that the title of this post and the article is just meant to grab attention. A much better title would have been, "Mirror too low? See you in court!" At least that would be black and white. Signs are such strange and beautiful creatures...

Peace,
Iron Man

 

[Paul Sweet]

I don't always agree with Mark Handler, but I appreciate his knowledge of the ADA and accessibility requirements.

The ADA requirements closely follow ANSI A117.1, which was developed by code groups and handicap advocacy groups. The problem started when the feds adopted their version of it as a civil rights law to be enforced by lawsuits. It's surprising that it took so long for certain lawyers to discover they could make several thousand dollars quickly for discrepancies of 1/2 inch. The Unruh law in California was originally written to penalize people who practiced blatant discrimination against minorities by not letting them apply for jobs, eat in certain restaurants, etc. Unfortunately it became a convenient bludgeon for these attorneys.

 

[conarb]

I don't always agree with Mark Handler, but I appreciate his knowledge of the ADA and accessibility requirements.

But why is it overwhelming this forum? Is it more important than structural and other important code requirements? I know of a couple who have left here because of it, one in particular called me several times to discuss MH's taking the forum over.

The ADA requirements closely follow ANSI A117.1, which was developed by code groups and handicap advocacy groups.

But those groups have been funded by George Soros' Open Society and other NGOs, his intent is to destroy nations and make everyone citizens of the world, these things don't get legs without money.

 

[ICE]

But why is it overwhelming this forum? Is it more important than structural and other important code requirements? I know of a couple who have left here because of it, one in particular called me several times to discuss MH's taking the forum over.

Well duh! It's an accessibility forum. If Mark is eager to post there why would that bother anyone. There's not more of what you're looking for because people aren't bringing it around. You can't fault Mark for that.
I dominated the contractor talk forum for years and nobody complained....well there was one guy but he got over it. I stopped and what's become of it.... it's pretty damned quiet that's what.

The truth is that Mark is a wonderful source of information on accessibility and much more.

 

[conarb]

Well duh! It's an accessibility forum. If Mark is eager to post there why would that bother anyone. There's not more of what you're looking for because people aren't bringing it around. You can't fault Mark for that.
I dominated the contractor talk forum for years and nobody complained....well there was one guy but he got over it. I stopped and what's become of it.... it's pretty damned quiet that's what.

The truth is that Mark is a wonderful source of information on accessibility and much more.

Tiger, I thought about that but just decided to write "forum" for simplicity's sake, I meant the entire "Building Code Forum".

We have a new Attorney General as of today, hopefully he's going to be cleaning house and clearing out 70% of the regulations now in place, he's under a lot of pressure to address other matters and at this point I don't see anyone demanding that he clean up the Access Board or other DOJ regulations related to the ADA. Obviously from the disputes here it is a mess of badly drafted rules and regulations. The regulations you are enforcing today will not be the regulations you will be enforcing a year from now, then of course there will be the conflicts between new federal regulations and state regulations.

Hopefully we can get to the point that we don't label some classes as inferior granting them special privileges and start treating everybody equal like the Constitution says.

 

[ADAguy]

Equal is only equal if all of us are the same. As this is not the case in our society we choose to assist those who are less able/fortunate than others. I regret that you find this to be less than equal.

We no longer live in the dark ages but are connected by technologies undreamed of and seen as witchcraft back then.

Would you have us cast off those less fortunate then you by denying them the opportunity to become more equal to you in your eyes?

 

[conarb]

Equal is only equal if all of us are the same. As this is not the case in our society we choose to assist those who are less able/fortunate than others. I regret that you find this to be less than equal.

We no longer live in the dark ages but are connected by technologies undreamed of and seen as witchcraft back then.

Would you have us cast off those less fortunate then you by denying them the opportunity to become more equal to you in your eyes?

ADAguy:

That is not in the Constitution, amend the Constitution if enough people believe that, are you a "do-gooder" or just making money off it?

 

[tmurray]

I think we can all agree that the litigation associated with ADA does not help greatly with compliance. Alternative forms of compliance should be reviewed for a more suitable alternative. That being said, unless someone here has the ability to change the law (either through a legal challenge or through an amendment) what does the argument solve? everyone is just getting worked up and there is nothing productive that will ever come from it.

Posting of current case law is generally helpful for anyone in that field. Posting of proposed legislation helps others look at their own systems and compare and contrast with the objective being an improvement over what they had before. I'm not even subject to ADA and I read this section on a regular basis.

 

[conarb]

I had a discussion the other day with a retired attorney friend, if the AG eliminates 70% of it the productive thing to do is determine which 30% is best to keep and/or reform it, our problem is that we are in California and the governor has vowed to fight Trump's reforms so I won't do us any good.