• Welcome to The Building Code Forum

    Your premier resource for building code knowledge.

    This forum remains free to the public thanks to the generous support of our Sawhorse Members and Corporate Sponsors. Their contributions help keep this community thriving and accessible.

    Want enhanced access to expert discussions and exclusive features? Learn more about the benefits here.

    Ready to upgrade? Log in and upgrade now.

Permit Expediting?

Yikes said:
One other thing from the other side of the counter: the Owner tends to think of the city as a monolith. They may have been dealing with planning and economic development departments for 2-3 years or more to just get discretionary approvals in place. They've committed many preconstruction dollars at-risk, because no lender will finance the project until discretionary approvals are done. So they've told the architect to do the bare minimum for planning approvals.
By the time entitlements are in place, the wacky economy and interest rates are playing havoc with their proforma and financing, and they've been told that switchgear has a 12 month lead time.

The building department may be seeing the plans for the first time, and it's "new to you", but from the Owner's perspective, it's been "the city" (as a monolithic bureaucracy) that's stretched the project viability to the limits.
Yes, that's why developers get the big bucks, for taking the risks, so you may not feel too sorry for them. But you at the building department are the last hurdle to construction start and the road to this point has seemed longer to them than it has to you.
Click to expand...

Largely true ... and not my problem.
 
Yikes said:
One other thing from the other side of the counter: the Owner tends to think of the city as a monolith. They may have been dealing with planning and economic development departments for 2-3 years or more to just get discretionary approvals in place. They've committed many preconstruction dollars at-risk, because no lender will finance the project until discretionary approvals are done. So they've told the architect to do the bare minimum for planning approvals.
By the time entitlements are in place, the wacky economy and interest rates are playing havoc with their proforma and financing, and they've been told that switchgear has a 12 month lead time.

The building department may be seeing the plans for the first time, and it's "new to you", but from the Owner's perspective, it's been "the city" (as a monolithic bureaucracy) that's stretched the project viability to the limits.
Yes, that's why developers get the big bucks, for taking the risks, so you may not feel too sorry for them. But you at the building department are the last hurdle to construction start and the road to this point has seemed longer to them than it has to you.
Click to expand...
And I do sympathize with how long the process is up to us...And I hate that we are at the end and they are pissed off when they come to us..And that they think they already have their permits and approvals when they have to start dealing with us..And then I have to write them a 4 page plan review and "hold up their project"...But that is why they make the big bucks...If there was as much onus/ push/ pressure on improving all of the approvals before us, everyone's lives might be a bit better...
 
I have a meeting today. We are and should be IMO the final part of the process in that everyone before us is the "IF" you can do it, and we are the "HOW" you can do it. However, I continually deal with the IF people implying, or allowing the applicant to infer APPROVAL, then by the time they get to me their program is set and based on a very problematic HOW. My meeting today is them wanting to explain to me how they spent 9 months getting to me, only to find out the HOW is in direct opposition to what the IF people said is the only way it will work.

9 months and lots of leg work to get to me, 3 days for me to blow it up, a confab of one sort or another every nearly every day since. The monolith includes us, be we are light years faster than the rest, and left holding the bag for what cam before us.

Very frustrating.
 
My community suggest early introduction and encourages meetings with staff before they submit to the planning and conservation commission, I attend as the BO and the Zoning Enforcement Officer.

We layout the process, requirements, suggest strongly the applicant hire competent professionals, read the rules and submit early complete documents.

I point out high level code requirements and offer to meet with the building design professional once they have passed the schematic phase.

This approach seems to help they who are professionals, those who thing they know or do not want to spend the money or are lazy are helpless. h
 
Our Town Planner requires a pre-application meeting when she gets the initial phone call inquiring about the process. I attend these as BO and discuss some of the BD process but the players for the permit are usually not the same as those working on the DO. Sometimes they are but they are not focused on a permit set, just site plan info for the DO.
 
Our local municipality requires large projects to go through a Predevelopment Review process. We usually get significant feedback from the planning department, but the building department review is one sentence. “Comply with 2022 California codes.”

Gee, thanks a lot.
 
Yikes said:
Our local municipality requires large projects to go through a Predevelopment Review process. We usually get significant feedback from the planning department, but the building department review is one sentence. “Comply with 2022 California codes.”

Gee, thanks a lot.
Click to expand...

Considering that at the pre-zoning application process the building design is usually nothing more than a very schematic description of size and outside dimensions, and possibly a pretty rendering, it's difficult to think of anything more specific a building department could offer.
 
Yankee Chronicler said:
Considering that at the pre-zoning application process the building design is usually nothing more than a very schematic description of size and outside dimensions, and possibly a pretty rendering, it's difficult to think of anything more specific a building department could offer.
Click to expand...
And a survey less than 12 months old, to scale and digitally signed and sealed.
 
webmaster@mysticpool said:
From a contractor's point of view, I feel it's unfair.
So now my plan reviews are pushed back because I'm patiently waiting the normal time frame.
Click to expand...
Is it fair the the contractors who got everything right the first time because you want to cut in line just because you made corrections?

We don't want to give you an incentive to submit poor plans just so you can always be put at the top of the queue when you resubmit corrections to your mistakes.
 
steveray said:
The struggle is real....
Click to expand...
On every project I always find out exactly what the building department needs so I when I submit, it is complete.
Every town/city I deal with has different requirements. It's not a problem. I give what is requested. I confirm upon submission also.

I just don't like the idea of being pushed back because someone is willing to pay an additional fee for an expedited permit. That's the part I think is unfair.
 
webmaster@mysticpool said:
On every project I always find out exactly what the building department needs so I when I submit, it is complete.
Every town/city I deal with has different requirements. It's not a problem. I give what is requested. I confirm upon submission also.

I just don't like the idea of being pushed back because someone is willing to pay an additional fee for an expedited permit. That's the part I think is unfair.
Click to expand...
"Concierge service"....all of the cool kids are doing it....lol.....I get what you are saying, and I agree....
 
When I looked at it, the only "fair" way to approach it was to expedite outside of normal work hours. Otherwise, you could get into a situation where you need to pay an expediting fee to come close to the top of the review pile... I have to pay my plan reviewer X$ in overtime, plus % for the organization to administer the program. Somewhere around the $200/hour base rate with a minimum of 3 hours.

We did do some expediting when someone was trying to rebuild their home after a house fire, or someone was building a ramp to get into their home after a heart attack. Things like that. No real policy on it, just trying to make sure people suffering from hardship outside of their direct control are not punished by a system...

I have very limited sympathy for those who fail to plan. Stupidity is and should be expensive.
 
webmaster@mysticpool said:
On every project I always find out exactly what the building department needs so I when I submit, it is complete.
Every town/city I deal with has different requirements. It's not a problem. I give what is requested. I confirm upon submission also.
Click to expand...
Doesn't New Jersey have a statewide building code? If so, why and how can each town have different requirements?

We have a state building code, and municipalities are not allowed to amend it. It's the same code, everywhere in the state -- and somehow most architects still can't provide even the basic information that's clearly called out in Chapter 1 under "Construction Documents."

And when we ask for the bare minimum the code requires, we get the standard sob story: "You guys are so mean. They don't make me do this in any other town."
 
Yankee Chronicler said:
Doesn't New Jersey have a statewide building code? If so, why and how can each town have different requirements?

We have a state building code, and municipalities are not allowed to amend it. It's the same code, everywhere in the state -- and somehow most architects still can't provide even the basic information that's clearly called out in Chapter 1 under "Construction Documents."

And when we ask for the bare minimum the code requires, we get the standard sob story: "You guys are so mean. They don't make me do this in any other town."
Click to expand...
I will clarify.
Yes, the state codes will apply from to town to town. But, in some cases the towns can go beyond the code requirement. For instance, a 4' high fence is required around a pool or property for a swimming pool. One particular town required a 5' fence. A different requirement.

Some towns will accept a copy of property survey/plot plan not sealed by an engineer and not to scale. In fact, some have accepted a doodling of the pool shape with some arrows indicating distances from the property lines. Others want an updated property survey/plan by a PE. Most of the time they will include existing coverage calculations and proposed coverage calculations. Sometimes topographical plot plan with it.

These are some examples of how towns differ and why I ask exactly what they need.

On a recent build I was required to get a pressure test inspection on the pool piping. We most certainly pressure test before covering pipe but a section in the ICC/ISPSC requires a specific pressure test. I was not aware of this.
This has been in effect since 2018. First time ever I was required to do so. I joked with the inspector that no other town has asked for this inspection. I did as required. Not a problem.
The funnier thing is that I teach classes in my industry both locally and nationally on pool and spa plumbing! Now, I incorporate this into the sessions I do.

And yes, I have heard contractors complain that other towns don't require certain inspections, blah, blah, blah. Suck it up butter cup.
But this tells me that the AHJ either does not know the codes or doesn't care. That, is bad.
 
webmaster@mysticpool said:
Others want an updated property survey/plan by a PE
Click to expand...
P.E.'s do not do surveys unless they are licensed as a Surveyor, which is very, very rare. Surveyors do surveys and can easily digitally sign and seal them.

When we get a survey that is a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy (you get the point) and Bluebeam confirms it was reduced to 8.5x11, we reject it. As a matter of fact, I just received one that was reduced to letter size and was so crude that the contractor did not realize that they showed the new structure on the neighbor's property on the other side of the property line but then hand-wrote: "meets setback."
 
I think we can all agree that permit expediting is definitely an unfair process regardless of what permit type you apply for, the cost of the job or how quickly/slowly you return your plans.
 
Yankee Chronicler said:
It's unfair to allow someone else to pay extra so they can jump the line.
Click to expand...
It's all about paying overtime wages to a plans reviewer. What is unwholesome about that? Just because someone has enough money to afford the overtime does not give them an unfair advantage. It gives them a fair advantage... What's the point of having the wherewithal if you are not allowed to use it?
 
The few places I have worked that actually did "expedited" plan review didn't pay anyone overtime to do it after hours. They just pushed the review to the front of the line and it got done during regular hours . So while SOMEBODY benefited in the department, it sure wasn't the plan reviewers. I always wondered what would happen if everyone decided to pay extra and everyone could get their permit quicker. Then we might just end up needing an expedited, expedited review. Kind of like early bird boarding on Southwest Airlines. Everyone happily paid for expedited boarding, then everyone started doing it and now the expedited boarding lands you in the same position it did before. So those who want to pay extra get to skip ahead, that is the price of a free market. FREE being the choice to choose a different airline. That doesn't hold as much water in a captive market where folks don't usually have a choice to pick a different AHJ.
 
Sifu said:
They just pushed the review to the front of the line and it got done during regular hours
Click to expand...
I haven't worked anywhere that did that. I know plan reviewers and inspectors that make as much in overtime as they do regular time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top