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Permit for Shed after 18yrs!

S

syntax1269

Registered User
Joined
Nov 19, 2021
Messages
3
Location
Altamonte Springs, Florida
Hi, i have a weird situation here. I got a notice that a shed that was on the property when i purchased it a few years back was not built with a permit. I live in Seminole County, and i have talked to the investigator. But i am kinda unclear as to what to do. it is 10x14 foot shed, and the inspector said i needed signed & sealed plans. it was built 18 years ago and previous owner is not helpful. so i basically have zero info. just kinda lost and permitting department website is not helpful.
 
syntax1269 said:
Hi, i have a weird situation here. I got a notice that a shed that was on the property when i purchased it a few years back was not built with a permit. I live in Seminole County, and i have talked to the investigator. But i am kinda unclear as to what to do. it is 10x14 foot shed, and the inspector said i needed signed & sealed plans. it was built 18 years ago and previous owner is not helpful. so i basically have zero info. just kinda lost and permitting department website is not helpful.
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So basically it was determined that one of the previous owners must have installed a shed without permitting, therefore illegally. You are now paying for the sins of the previous owner. You can't "grandfather" something that was not done right the first time.
 
Do a Freedom of Information Request for all permit records for your property. If they cannot produce any records for your property then they can't proof the previous owner did not get a permit. Also request the code that was in effect when they believe the shed was installed, most residential codes do not require signed and sealed plans that is why they need to provide you with the information.
Was the shed constructed on site or does it look like it may have been a prebuilt? Look for a tag on the outside or inside that it may have been regulated by the state under the modular building codes for Florida. If it was then no drawings can be required from you. Ask why after 18 years they are asking for documentation of a permit and how did they even know about it.
 
Hi jar, Thank you for responding! after researching, i'm not sure of one thing and can't find it anywhere is the permitting guidelines back in 2003. As some counties did not require a permit for sheds under 200 sq ft. and was wondering if that was the case when this was built.

If anyone can point me to a site or document so that i can further research would be greatly appreciated.
 
mtlogcabin said:
Do a Freedom of Information Request for all permit records for your property. If they cannot produce any records for your property then they can't proof the previous owner did not get a permit. Also request the code that was in effect when they believe the shed was installed, most residential codes do not require signed and sealed plans that is why they need to provide you with the information.
Was the shed constructed on site or does it look like it may have been a prebuilt? Look for a tag on the outside or inside that it may have been regulated by the state under the modular building codes for Florida. If it was then no drawings can be required from you. Ask why after 18 years they are asking for documentation of a permit and how did they even know about it.
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In seminole county all permits are open and online and found all the other permits for the property. It's just this one shed that are having an issue with. Long story short, neighbor didn't like that i was making a maze for an event and needed to paint and design it in my gated 1 acre property. The inspector asked if it was an elaborate decoration for the holidays, i said no, but it's for an event and not permanent. He had a good laugh and said as long as it is temperary then i was good with it. Then he questioned about the shed, and that's how this whole thing started... but anyways i will look around the inside of the shed to see if there is a manufacturer on it as i believe it was prebuilt. hopefully i will have some resolution to this craziness and will ask for the code that was in effect in 2003-2004 as google earth imaging shows no shed in 2003 but then skips to mid 2004 with the shed is inplace.
 
mtlogcabin said:
Do a Freedom of Information Request for all permit records for your property. If they cannot produce any records for your property then they can't proof the previous owner did not get a permit. Also request the code that was in effect when they believe the shed was installed, most residential codes do not require signed and sealed plans that is why they need to provide you with the information.
Was the shed constructed on site or does it look like it may have been a prebuilt? Look for a tag on the outside or inside that it may have been regulated by the state under the modular building codes for Florida. If it was then no drawings can be required from you. Ask why after 18 years they are asking for documentation of a permit and how did they even know about it.
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I think you have that backwards. The owner must show proof of a permit. You can't tell the municipality that if they can't find a permit then all is OK. Never, ever works that way. The proof of legal installation is when there is an actual permit.
 
jar546 said:
I think you have that backwards. The owner must show proof of a permit. You can't tell the municipality that if they can't find a permit then all is OK. Never, ever works that way. The proof of legal installation is when there is an actual permit.
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I understand it to mean that if there are no records of any sort, there is no way to claim that the shed was built without a permit. I have encountered that situation with additions to dwellings. A record search produces no records. So what then? I can't assume that there was no permit for any construction.

An inspector concerned himself with an eighteen year old 10'x14' shed on an acre lot? There might be more to this story.
 
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Stunning as it is, I agree with ICE.

I myself have way more issues to deal with than an unpermitted storage shed, that is barley over the Uniform Code allowance of 120, which was the 1997 UBC, for unpermitted storage sheds on an R3 property.
 
jar546 said:
I think you have that backwards. The owner must show proof of a permit.
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And where will the new owner 18 years later get that proof except from the AHJ who is required by law to maintain the records. The present owner relied on his realtor and title company that the property had no outstanding violations on it. So where do the companies get their answers from but the public records not some disgruntled neighbor. The shed has been there 18 years and through how many storms and/or hurricanes and it is still there. I would use (16)(a) as a decision not to require the arms-length purchaser of the property to provide sealed drawings and apply for a permit for the shed. As an AHJ I would find a simple solution. Obviously the disgruntled neighbor is using the AHJ to try and punish the new owner for doing something he did not like.

553.79
(c) A local enforcement agency may close a building permit 6 years after the issuance of the permit, even in the absence of a final inspection, if the local enforcement agency determines that no apparent safety hazards exist.
(16)(a) A local enforcement agency may not deny issuance of a building permit to; issue a notice of violation to; or fine, penalize, sanction, or assess fees against an arms-length purchaser of a property for value solely because a building permit applied for by a previous owner of the property was not closed. The local enforcement agency shall maintain all rights and remedies against the property owner and contractor listed on the permit.

SYNTAX1269
I am sure the AHJ has bigger and more important things to spend their time on than a complaint from a disgruntled neighbor about an 18 year old shed without a permit. As a last resort and as the current owner tell the AHJ you will need to be doing a records request for all the properties in the neighborhood checking for violations and how they where resolved by the AHJ. I will bet they will not want to open that can of worms
 
The building official can make this go away if he makes use of IBC Section 104.10
 
Caveat Emptor, buyer beware.

Permit and tax records are a great place to begin.

I have run into this very similar situation myself with one of the properties I owned in Florida. Work completed 2 parties before my ownership and I had no idea until I received the county codes department anddddd the subsequent HOA letter. Note to self, never buy in an HOA..... I ended up eating the issue but bought myself time (8 months) to resolve it by having a sit down with both entities and providing my resolution plan in writing for their files.
 
You probably have purchase title insurance when you bought the property. This is what that insurance is for.

You would not believe how often I am working with a new property owner that has no idea they have this insurance and it completely saves their bacon.
 
I'm pretty serious about that. You/we, as a city, cannot wait around for 18 years, do nothing and then one day ask for a permit, plans and calculations. If this goes to court, the city would most likely lose if the owner lawyers up. JMHO

Its an 18 year old shed, nothing to see here folks, move along....move along.
 
ICE said:
I understand it to mean that if there are no records of any sort, there is no way to claim that the shed was built without a permit. I have encountered that situation with additions to dwellings. A record search produces no records. So what then? I can't assume that there was no permit for any construction.

An inspector concerned himself with an eighteen year old 10'x14' shed on an acre lot? There might be more to this story.
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What is the condition of this shed? Is there some kind of hazard?

Very unusual for an inspector to question a 140 square foot shed that has been there for 18 years.
 
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Are there utilities (power/water/gas) connected to this shed? Are people occupying it? If it is a pre-built factory shed on skids throw a couple wheels on it and call it a trailer?
 
NJ started requiring I guess you call them recertification C/O inspection before a home can transfer title to the next owner a few decades ago, always thought it was an over reach, but I have seen it save more than a few future home owners from getting in a pickle.

The one that stands out, was a homeowner that built this elaborate multilevel deck with a spa on the 2nd level. None of it permitted, and Glenn cover your ears and eyes, none of it even close to compliance. The owner who built it was required to fix it or tear it down before the town would issue the c/o. The new owner provided a letter to the town that they would remove it after closing and before occupying the property, at a reduced price to the seller.

I still have mixed feeling about the inspection requirement, but the regular home inspector only pointed out it was not built correctly, the town said where's the permit?

As to a 140 sqft pre-built shed, as noted unless there is electric or water, what the heck, get a life.....your kid is off to college already
 
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Problem is when you have a pissy neighbor that won't let you ignore it.....Then you have negligence....Whether you like it or not....

(Amd) R104.1 General. The building official is hereby authorized and directed to enforce the provisions of this code.
 
Pissing neighbor needs to be told that his complaint on his neighbor results in a review of all properties within 2 blocks in all directions for violations. 9 time out of 10 I have had the pissy neighbor drop the complaint because that is not their intention
 
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