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Permits for Replacing windows?

G

Glennman CBO

Silver Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
441
Who requires permits for replacing windows, same for same?

If not, why not?

Thanks all.
 
I actually came on here to search for similar threads.

We recently started to because of the new 2009 IECC. For some reason people read it to require a permit if you are changing out windows but I can't find it now. I believe they interpret 101.4.3 to mean that it requires a permit.
 
Here is an older email I had recieved.

Next, the Code [2009 IECC] considers window replacements alterations to the building. Yet for some time, many Illinois municipalities had considered the replacement window issue a matter of jurisdictional choice by way of a jurisdiction’s unique adopting ordinance; most often reading, “If it fits into the same opening, then you do not need to obtain a building permit. Where the new window size is different than the size of the opening, a permit application is required.”

With the onset of energy efficiency requirements for residential buildings effective January 29, 2010, all window replacements, as alterations, require a permit in accordance with the Code [2009 IECC]. Jurisdictions subject to the Energy Efficient Building Act will use the 2009 IECC to perform compliance assessment for both residential buildings, and thereby to inspect and verify fenestration thermal performance (U-factor, Solar Heat Gain Coefficient and Air leakage) for homeowners in their communities. This will take some extra public relations and communications to get the word out for the new permit requirement; a perfect opportunity for Building Safety Month.

Section 600.110, Part c) 2) of the Act, entitled Privately Funded Commercial Facilities and Residential Buildings, reads:

“The Code as [2009 IECC] described in Subparts C [Privately Funded Commercial Facilities] and D [Residential Building] of this Part applies to any new building or structure in this State for which a building permit application is received by a municipality or county. [20 ILCS 3125/20]

A) Additions, alterations, renovations or repairs to an existing building, building system or portion thereof shall conform to the provisions of the Code [2009 IECC] as they relate to new construction without requiring the unaltered portion of the existing building or building system to comply with the Code [2009 IECC]. [20 ILCS 3125/20©]

B) All exceptions listed in the Code [2009 IECC] related to additions, alterations, renovations or repairs to an existing building are acceptable provided the energy use of the building is not increased.

[underline emphasis intended]
 
The Florida Building Code has very limited exemptions to work not requiring a permit. Exterior openings are not one of them. Any exterior door or window must be permitted here.

The only bone of contention we often run into is when the scope work requires the opening to be protected (impact rating and/or shutters) as a result of the wind-borne debris / HVWZ regions found here in Florida.
 
Currently, we don't require permits for 1 to 1 replacements with no change in rough opening. However, I can see a change coming.
 
So ok. I found the four step process to get to the section that requires the permit.

It is IRC R105.1

It has to do with the definition for alteration and this section above.
 
Windows have always been regulated by the Energy Code; windows are part of a system. Permit is required.

If it's not a repair, it's gotta be something else, and everything else requires a permit.

Yes, I get a lot of criticism.
 
Depends. Did they meet code before? You cannot increase a non-conformity. It would also depend on the number of windows replaced.

Is it ok if they remove the double-pane low-e safety glass window next to the bathtub and replace it with single pane? How do you know without a permit.. after all, it's the same size window.

What is required will not always be the same.
 
We've been requiring it for a couple of years. The installers submit the specifications of the windows and we tell them to leave the stickers on the window until we look at them. Once an inspection is performed the homeowner can remove them.

We base the permit off of job cost.
 
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It's been my experience that a floor plan with elevations needs to be supplied with the permit and reviewed by the plan examiner.
 
Bootleg, do you require the plans and elevations to be accurately scaled? As an architect, I could see how scaled drawings would be helpful (and maybe required by code), but if they had to come to me to go out and do asbuilt measurements and draw up the house, it's probably going to add 20% to the cost of the windows. I sometimes ponder the cost/benefit of services and in this case, I don't see a 20% benefit to the client. Question 2: If it's an apartment building (or commercial structure) not exempted from requiring a professional stamp, is an Architect required to stamp the plans?

Over the years, I've had a couple clients who only hired me after they had already submitted something for permit only to find out it required a stamp. While it puts money in my bank account, I can't help feeling sorry for the client when I see little added value of my expertise. I'm only talking about small things here that in reality had little to no life safety issues. Window replacement is falling close to that category in my opinion.
 
I have considered size for size window replacement to be an ordinary repair (R105.2.2). Although we have not adopted Appendix J, see AJ401.2 for guidance regarding minor opening changes due to sash differences in aluminum and vinyl.
 
I believe the official position for NYS is 'no' for 'glass only' replacement, provided the new glass is no less efficient than the old.

Of course, that will vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction in accordance with local law (home rule state and all).

I know of Towns that require a permit for everything - shingle only roof job included.

I know of other Towns that don't require a permit for a new deck - as in 'never had one before'... go figure.
 
(based on 2003 IRC)

Appendix J defines repair as the "restoration" of any part of a building to "good or sound" condition.

Alteration is defined as "removal and replacement".

I see this as: replacement of broken glass or replacement of a sash = repair. AJ402.2 requires glazing in hazardous areas to be safety glazing on a repair. However, we don't require permits to repair things.

Removal and replacement of a window = alteration. Permit required for this activity. Otherwise you would have to explain why a permit is required for the alteration of the kitchen, but not for replacement (ie alteration) of the windows.
 
What I've ran into in the field is when the City only took the money for the permit without a review is an owner who is very mad when I write corrections required.

1.Safety glass required over tub or next to door or on stair landing.

2.Provide egress in bedroom window that was change from operable to fixed.
 
It seems to me that when a person completely replaces the window frame, then this is more than just a repair. A repair is fixing what is existing, and an alteration is removing the existing frame, and installing a new one. The old one is then discarded.

In R105.2.2, a repair does not include "the removal or change of any required means of egress, or rearrangement of parts of a structure affecting the egress requirements".

If they have a compliant egress window, and they want to install a new one, they have affected the egress requirements, even if nothing changed. Affecting the egress requirement doesn't have to mean making something better or worse. If they install a new frame, it affects the egress, and needs a permit (IMHO).

Thanks all. This the latest point of discussion in our department.
 
we do not require a permit for likewise replacement. i guess it would be a money maker if the permit was based on the value of the work! do the inspectors look at the flashing details before the window is trimmed out? you know the 6" or 8" paper flashing and the cutting back of the siding to accomplish the proper flashing technique per manufacturer. probably NOT! what does the consumer receive from the ahj to justify the exorbitant fee? i would like to pad the kitty but would like to have justification to do so.
 
We don't require a permit for like size replacements, and don't plan on opening that can of worms.........got bigger fish to fry. I have 100 year old houses that may or may not have insulation in the walls and/or attic, and I'm going to enforce the 09 IECC for window replacement? Really? And as pwood pointed out, proper installation?

...........I doubt it.

JMHO
 
pwood said:
we do not require a permit for likewise replacement. i guess it would be a money maker if the permit was based on the value of the work! do the inspectors look at the flashing details before the window is trimmed out? you know the 6" or 8" paper flashing and the cutting back of the siding to accomplish the proper flashing technique per manufacturer. probably NOT! what does the consumer receive from the ahj to justify the exorbitant fee? i would like to pad the kitty but would like to have justification to do so.
Click to expand...
For this argument to be relevant, you have to assume the fee is exorbitant. We do not base fees off of cost of construction (that can be it's own thread).

NY has substantially modified Chapter 11, so I can't speak about other states regarding the home with no insulation.
 
In Little RI we have required permits for replacement windows for the past 6 years

Prior to that no permits were required.

The replacement windows vinyl alum or wood where the existing frames remain in place and new frame and sash replace the old operable sash have only to comply with energy Uo values and glazing in hazardous locations.

If the replacement reduces the opening for required emergency escape. (one in a sleeping room) I interperet that as reducing existing compliance and therefore require egress compliance.

When old frames are removed full compliance is all criteria. Wind DP, Air Infiltration, Energy ..

Question in relation to that is How many jurisdictions adopt or reference in Appendix J

Which reads

AJ102.4 Replacement windows.

Regardless of the category of work, when an existing window, including sash and glazed portion is replaced, the replacement window shall comply with the requirements of Chapter 11.
 
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