• Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades
One of the things I find often gets overlooked is that here, our code not only looks after life safety, but the health of the occupants. Water infiltration into the building envelope can have very serious negative impacts on occupant health. One would argue this could eventually become a structural and life safety issue as well, but how far do you chase that rabbit down the hole?
 
So basically some municipalities just downplay the importance of window installations as not important. If that is the case then why do sheathing inspections?
 
If the work is limited to replacement of the window sash it is considered a repair and is not subject to newer energy requirements.
 
As long as the rough opening is not being made larger we do not require a permit. When replacing egress window openings cannot be made substantially smaller, again, a permit is not required.
 
Almost hate to post reply, for the backlash, but same camp as no permits unless openings enlarge horizontally. Safety glazing inspected at rough-in, see flashing at weather barrier, energy requirements are taken care of with the third-party energy certificate at final. 115 mph wind zone.
 
Almost hate to post reply, for the backlash, but same camp as no permits unless openings enlarge horizontally. Safety glazing inspected at rough-in, see flashing at weather barrier, energy requirements are taken care of with the third-party energy certificate at final. 115 mph wind zone.
Thanks for sharing. Again, how are windows not structural like sheathing when there is a wind pressure requirement?
 
In our jurisdiction, for all of the new houses, the structural sheathing is calculated to be strong enough independent of the windows, and (almost) all of the windows are the nailing flange type previously mentioned.

Since the windows don't hold anything up or together, the logic is that they are not structural.

We don't really worry about the energy efficiency requirements - everybody uses the same two brands of windows, you either buy them from one big box store or the other... we haven't noticed any problems.

No flashing being installed, or installed incorrectly, could definitely cause water leakage.

We catch safety glazing issues at the framing inspection or the final.

We don't inspect window replacements because of time and resources. Maybe we should, but with a small department you have to prioritize...
 
This is one of those grey areas, right? Situation specific? A lot of these replies covered many of the concerns, but I'll throw something out there just for conversation. If we (as a building department) permit something then we are responsible for making sure it's done right, yes? If we do not permit something then it's the owners responsibility, no? Worst case scenario, if someone replaces a bedroom window with a non-egress window, without a permit or inspection, and someone dies as a result, is the city liable in any way? Same scenario but they do get a permit and it's missed on inspection, or no inspection, is the city liable then? That's the extreme, but same logic applies to warranties or insurance claims. This is the discussion I like to have with customers in these grey areas. "If you do this work on your own it's your responsibility to do it right and you take on any liability. If you want our services we will issue a permit and provide our services." There are grants that a couple of local agencies can get for upgrading customers to energy efficient windows or clean burning wood stoves, the grants require permits and inspections. That's where I see window permits pulled most. Occasionally I get a customer who likes having us involved so we help out.
 
great topic jar,

now if you can just eliminate the initial ad from the opening site and the recent "X- rated" ads, whats with those?
 
great topic jar,

now if you can just eliminate the initial ad from the opening site and the recent "X- rated" ads, whats with those?
Everyone's ads are different and Google based so I never see what others see. At work, I see no ads because of the restrictions.
 
Thanks for sharing. Again, how are windows not structural like sheathing when there is a wind pressure requirement?
Piss poor excuse, but I inherited the policy, and have never had the urge to revisit it, due to lack of problems with it. ;)
 
This is in reference to the 2012 and 2015 codes.

ASCE 7-10, “Minimum Design Loads for Buildings and Other Structures”, introduces significant changes to wind load design. The 2010 edition is the first edition of ASCE-7 where the basic wind speed map from ASCE 7’s previous editions has been replaced with three ultimate design wind speed maps; one for each Occupancy Category. These “ultimate” wind speeds are higher than “nominal” or “basic” wind speeds that you have used in the past, but do not fear, the resulting loads and reactions (uplifts) will be very similar to what you are used to.

3 second gust
Sustained wind speed or
Ultimate Design Wind
They will all give you very similar designs. It is the exposure categories especially exposure "D" that will have significant load increases. We use exposure "C" but in reality once a subdivision is built out in 1-5 years it is then an exposure "B" by definition
Wind speeds are a quagmire but I have arrived to the exact same place as you.
 
In our jurisdiction, for all of the new houses, the structural sheathing is calculated to be strong enough independent of the windows, and (almost) all of the windows are the nailing flange type previously mentioned.

Since the windows don't hold anything up or together, the logic is that they are not structural.

We don't really worry about the energy efficiency requirements - everybody uses the same two brands of windows, you either buy them from one big box store or the other... we haven't noticed any problems.

No flashing being installed, or installed incorrectly, could definitely cause water leakage.

We catch safety glazing issues at the framing inspection or the final.

We don't inspect window replacements because of time and resources. Maybe we should, but with a small department you have to prioritize...

That is great that structural sheathing is calculated that way but all is lost when the windows are compromised. I still believe that this is one of the most neglected parts of the code that is in black and white yet we continue to find excuses as to why we don't have to verify compliance because "that's the way it has always been don." I am not bashing but I am pretty hot on this subject. I think that we need to step up to the plate rather than rely on the past. With changing wind zones, it is more important than we may have bee use to.
 
The windows don't resist shear like the sheathing does....Their structural requirements are unto themselves and do not affect the rest of the structure except for you high wind missile folks. And I believe that is a pressurization thing, not shear.......Like FB....We don't really inspect them so I wish we did not take permits for them...
 
The windows don't resist shear like the sheathing does....Their structural requirements are unto themselves and do not affect the rest of the structure except for you high wind missile folks. And I believe that is a pressurization thing, not shear.......Like FB....We don't really inspect them so I wish we did not take permits for them...
There is more than sheer involved but everyone keeps focusing on sheer. Wind pressures, wind pressures, wind pressures.
 
Got it...answered in the other thread.....I think most of us don't have time to do all of the inspections we would like to do. I have never heard of that type of failure around here (so can't justify the inspection), maybe at the shore, I will ask some of my buds down there next time I see them...
 
Is compliance with the performance requirements of the A440 amalgamated standard required for you folks?

This came into our code 5 years ago and was initially a headache to enforce, but has gotten a lot better. Unlike the US where are the performance requirements are bound to the performance grade, in Canada we look at the positive and negative design pressures, water penetration rate, and air infiltration( only required in Canada under the Canadian supplement) in isolation.

When we first started inspecting, many of the suppliers and even some of the manufacturers were sending windows that did not meet code into our market. Usually we were able to catch this at the time of ordering (we ask for the suppliers spec sheet as part of the permit process). So most of the time we catch it before the windows are even started at the factory. We continue to have some problems with a particular big box store that is associated with the colour orange.

The issues can either be window failure due to excess deflection where the proper negative or positive design pressures are not used, the window leaking water where the proper water penetration pressure is not met, and in Canada, drafty windows where the air infiltration rate is not met.

We have a local home warranty company that tells us that their average cost of repair for a single leaky window is $7,000.
 
Yes...

R609.3 Testing and labeling. Exterior windows and sliding
doors shall be tested by an approved independent laboratory,
and bear a label identifying manufacturer, performance characteristics
and approved inspection agency to indicate compliance
with AAMA/WDMA/CSA 101/I.S.2/A440. Exterior
side-hinged doors shall be tested and labeled as conforming
to AAMA/WDMA/CSA 101/I.S.2/A440 or AMD 100, or
comply with Section R609.5.
 
Is compliance with the performance requirements of the A440 amalgamated standard required for you folks?

This came into our code 5 years ago and was initially a headache to enforce, but has gotten a lot better. Unlike the US where are the performance requirements are bound to the performance grade, in Canada we look at the positive and negative design pressures, water penetration rate, and air infiltration( only required in Canada under the Canadian supplement) in isolation.

When we first started inspecting, many of the suppliers and even some of the manufacturers were sending windows that did not meet code into our market. Usually we were able to catch this at the time of ordering (we ask for the suppliers spec sheet as part of the permit process). So most of the time we catch it before the windows are even started at the factory. We continue to have some problems with a particular big box store that is associated with the colour orange.

The issues can either be window failure due to excess deflection where the proper negative or positive design pressures are not used, the window leaking water where the proper water penetration pressure is not met, and in Canada, drafty windows where the air infiltration rate is not met.

We have a local home warranty company that tells us that their average cost of repair for a single leaky window is $7,000.

And there it is
 
Top