Personal Hygiene Receptor

[jar546]

So this is actually a restroom that was constructed in 2004 for local government. The rear grab bar behind the water closet is not properly installed because it has less than 24 inches from the center of the water closet to the right because they put it too close into the corner. So we already know that’s a problem. We also know that The lav is too close to the water closet and I don’t have the 60 inches of clearance from the corner to where the lav starts.
What I’m curious about is the personal hygiene receptor that is forward of the toilet paper dispenser. It is at a proper height, but I am unable to determine whether there is a requirement for how far forward it can be. I’m assuming I should be able to find something about this in chapter 3 of the ANSI standard 117.1, but I am unable to do so. What are your thoughts on this? Is there even a specification or requirement that applies to this and if so, what is it?

 

[e hilton]

Does it or the TP dispenser extend too far from the wall?

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

Not so fast. The original ADA, and A117.1 prior to the 2003 edition, allowed one-half of a lavatory to overlap the water closet clear floor space. If the building was constructed in 2004, depending on when it was permitted and what codes were in effect, it may be compliant.

Original ADA:

0
UFAS 1984:



Looks like I don't have scanned versions of A117.1 prior to 2003, but I'm 98.37% certain they'll agree with UFAS and the original ADA.

 

[walker.t]

I’m assuming I should be able to find something about this in chapter 3 of the ANSI standard 117.1, but I am unable to do so.

I was thinking it would be in 604 Water Closets and Toilet Compartments.

First off, we know it’s OK to have a sanitary napkin receptacle over the toilet clearance per:

A117.1-1017 604.3.3 Clearance Overlap
The required clearance around the water closet shall be permitted to overlap the water closet, associated grab bars, paper dispensers, sanitary napkin receptacles, coat hooks, shelves, accessible routes, clear floor space at other fixtures and the turning space. No other fixtures or obstructions shall be within the required water closet clearance.

“Sanitary napkin dispenser” is only mentioned that once in 604.3.3. As far as reach from the toilet, there’s nothing I could find. I’d say that if the intent is that someone be able to reach the dispenser from the toilet that it be located in an area where the toilet paper dispense could be located.

Not sure what the requirements were when the restroom was permitted and if you’re trying to build a case that it was non-compliant when it was constructed or if you’re making a list of things that need to be done to make it compliant with current codes.

In case you’re trying to build a list of other issues…

1. I have seen toilet seat cover dispensers located above the toilet like the picture shows, but it’s not on the list of things that can overlap the toilet clearance unless you consider that a form of “paper,” but I always assumed they meant “toilet paper” but were too proper to call it what it is. Plus, not sure how something mounted above the toilet can be considered an accessible element because there isn’t a clear floor space where a person can approach the dispenser, pull out a seat cover, then apply it to the toilet seat before sitting down.
2. No vertical grab bar.

Unrelated to this post, your picture reminds me of another thread with a picture of a restroom you once posted:

Thread 'Lav Access'

Mar 22, 2024

Acceptable or not?

• jar546
• Replies: 24
• Forum: Accessibility Codes

 

[mtlogcabin]

and A117.1 prior to the 2003 edition

No CABO/ANSIA117.1 1992 and 1998 editions did not allow an overlap. I don't have the ADA text which is what you would adhere to not the drawing.

 

[mtlogcabin]

Clear Floor Space. The minimum unobstructed floor or ground space required to accommodate a single, stationary wheelchair and occupant.

Figure 28 (section 4.16) provides minimum clear floor space dimensions for toilets in accessible "unisex" toilet rooms. The dotted lines designate the minimum clear floor space, depending on the direction of approach, required for wheelchair users to transfer onto the water closet. The dimensions of 48 in (1220 mm) and 60 in (1525 mm), respectively, correspond to the space required for the two common transfer approaches utilized by wheelchair users (see Fig. A6). It is important to keep in mind that the placement of the lavatory to the immediate side of the water closet will preclude the side approach transfer illustrated in Figure A6(b). To accommodate the side transfer, the space adjacent to the water closet must remain clear of obstruction for 42 in (1065 mm) from the centerline of the toilet (Figure 28) and the lavatory must not be located within this clear space. A turning circle or T-turn, the clear floor space at the lavatory, and maneuvering space at the door must be considered when determining the possible wall locations.

 

[BN4537]

609.3 Spacing. The space between the wall and the grab bar shall be 1 1/2 inches (38 mm). The space between the grab bar and projecting objects below and at the ends shall be 1 1/2 inches (38 mm) minimum. The space between the grab bar and projecting objects above shall be 12 inches (305 mm) minimum.

https://www.ada.gov/law-and-regs/design-standards/2010-stds/#609-grab-bars

 

[Joe.B]

This is CA, so I don't know if you have something similar.

 

[Jean Tessmer-HI]

So this is actually a restroom that was constructed in 2004 for local government. The rear grab bar behind the water closet is not properly installed because it has less than 24 inches from the center of the water closet to the right because they put it too close into the corner. So we already know that’s a problem. We also know that The lav is too close to the water closet and I don’t have the 60 inches of clearance from the corner to where the lav starts.
What I’m curious about is the personal hygiene receptor that is forward of the toilet paper dispenser. It is at a proper height, but I am unable to determine whether there is a requirement for how far forward it can be. I’m assuming I should be able to find something about this in chapter 3 of the ANSI standard 117.1, but I am unable to do so. What are your thoughts on this? Is there even a specification or requirement that applies to this and if so, what is it?
View attachment 16025

Sharp teeth on bottom of TPD not allowed per 609.5 surface hazards, 5' wide by 5' deep clear floor space required around toilet, SCD access is obstructed by the toilet, SCD is required to have an un-obstructed side or forward approach space with maximum 48" high reach to the tip of the tissues being dispensed. See attached from the US access board site.

 

[Yikes]

Jean,
609.5 has both a scoping (location) qualification and prescriptive requirement that uses subjective adjectives: "Grab bars and any wall or other surfaces adjacent to grab bars [location] shall be free of sharp [subjective] or abrasive [subjective] elements and shall have rounded edges".

• How do you determine that the nodules/teeth shown in the picture below represent "sharp teeth" / "sharp or abrasive element"? Just because it can help tear toilet tissue, does that mean it is too sharp or abrasive for human contact? What radius on the nodules prescriptively defines an edge as "rounded"?
• If you believe it is sharp or abrasive, then from a scope/location standpoint, how is this toothed edge that is recessed under the bottom edge of the dispenser considered adjacent to the grab bar?

For a person who is one handed, I'd think that some type of edge that can assist the user in tearing the TP would be helpful for compliance with 309.4.