Plan Review Fire Sepression Systems

[Uncle Bob]

I'm not experienced at Commercial Plan Review. Who is responsible for conducting plan review of fire sepression systems, emergency egress signs, etc. ?

Should the Fire Marshall review commercial plans for these systems and sign off on the plan review; or is this the responsibility of Building Official?

 

[cda]

guess it depends on how your system is set up

here most building code items are the building department

any fire protection systems is the fire marshal

I know some states the state fire marshal does the plan review, once again depends on the city and state rules/ laws

but, if there is a fire protection system that maybe beyond scope of expertise, have admendement that can require third party review at submitters expense

 

[globe trekker]

Uncle Bob,

I agree with cda! It's whatever is approved by the elected officials. Here,

our fire dept. does fire related issues and MOE. The building side does the

building issues (MEP, ADA, MOE, parking, lighting, Zoning, etc.). Our AHJ

engineer does the civil & any floodplain issues.

We all try to overlap in reviewing though!

.

 

[mtlogcabin]

In my state it is the building official

© Notwithstanding any other provisions or references to the contrary within the NFPA standards, the authority having jurisdiction over any fire protection system required by the International Building Code shall be the building official.

In the past the building department paid the fire department a percentage of our plan review fees to provide plan reviews for fire suppression and alarm systems. When FD budget cut eliminated that personel from the FD we took it back and kept the fees we where paying them. Course we hired their most experienced/knowledgeable person to continue to do the reviews.

MOE and exit lighting has always been the BD responsibility

 

[fatboy]

Here we do everything except suppression and alarms, that's the Fire Marshall. But we work hand in hand on everything anyway.

 

[rnapier]

Check your state, county or municipal laws to find out who is responsible. Here in NJ we have a Fire Subcode official different then a Fire Marshal responsible for the fire supression system and a Building Subcode Official responsible for emergency lighting and egress. The Electrical Subcode Official would be resposible for any wiring methods required in the NEC and the Plumbing Subcode would be responsible for backflow requirements from his codes.

 

[FM William Burns]

In Michigan (for now) the Mechanical Inspector is responsible for Suppression Systems, the Electrical Inspector for Fire Alarm & Detection but the BO has authority over everything the IBC refers to and in many jurisdictions including ours, we (qualified and certified to level II or above and plans examiners) serve as a special consultant or 3rd party to the BO for matters of the heart. Legislation is pending

 

[cda]

In Michigan (for now) the Mechanical Inspector is responsible for Suppression Systems, the Electrical Inspector for Fire Alarm & Detection but the BO has authority over everything the IBC refers to and in many jurisdictions including ours, we (qualified and certified to level II or above and plans examiners) serve as a special consultant or 3rd party to the BO for matters of the heart. Legislation is pending

Nicet level????

 

[Builder Bob]

See the state law for clarification -

 

[cheyer]

Yes it does depend how your codes are written. That being said, here in California for example, the MOE chapter of the Building Code is mirrored in our Fire Code...although it was referenced from the Building Code. The same is said for our Fire Protection Systems chapter in the Fire Code....it is mirrored in the Building Code. At the end of the day, both departments assist each other when it comes to MOE...and for example, when it comes to fire alarm systems, Building does the electrical rough, while we do the final test and inspection.

 

[FM William Burns]

Cda,

Yes a NICET Level III or better is included in the proposed legislation however, NICET to our knowledge has still not developed a program for jurisdictional officials to receive training and certification and hashing out the work elements for fire service inspectors.

 

[cda]

Yes looked into the nicet still trying to figure out the testing process

Would be nice for the public to get it easier

 

[forensics]

Im no fan of NICET !

You can pray that you never have to wade through the quagmire of the NICET process and then pay the exorbient fees and costs to obtain certification.

Worse yet is the fact that after you have sucessfully passed the examinations then you must have another NICET certified person verify your performance of each of the examination tasks

The NICET process promotes the "good ole boy" system resulting in hight consumer costs and fewer professional providers of the regulated services

I believe if a candidate demonstrates proficiency by passing the written examination and provides a simple recomendation letter from a recognized professional who has knowledge of his ability to preform in his field of expertise then there is no need to maintain a seperate certification

The one redeeming value of NICET is that it does provide a benchmark for nationaly recognized certification for interstate practice.

NICET would not have any particular interest in jurisdictional certifications because NICET is a body that is established and operated by the Society of Professional Engineers and it is primarily geared toward the engineering technicians as a mark of competence.

 

[cda]

Im no fan of NICET !You can pray that you never have to wade through the quagmire of the NICET process and then pay the exorbient fees and costs to obtain certification.

Worse yet is the fact that after you have sucessfully passed the examinations then you must have another NICET certified person verify your performance of each of the examination tasks

The NICET process promotes the "good ole boy" system resulting in hight consumer costs and fewer professional providers of the regulated services

I believe if a candidate demonstrates proficiency by passing the written examination and provides a simple recomendation letter from a recognized professional who has knowledge of his ability to preform in his field of expertise then there is no need to maintain a seperate certification

The one redeeming value of NICET is that it does provide a benchmark for nationaly recognized certification for interstate practice.

NICET would not have any particular interest in jurisdictional certifications because NICET is a body that is established and operated by the Society of Professional Engineers and it is primarily geared toward the engineering technicians as a mark of competence.

Not sure how much nicet would help an ahj during plan review

But not sure if I could say most ahj's do not have engineers review plans, so you have a person with maybe very little knowledge reviewing sometimes complicated systems

 

[Alias]

I'm not experienced at Commercial Plan Review. Who is responsible for conducting plan review of fire sepression systems, emergency egress signs, etc. ?Should the Fire Marshall review commercial plans for these systems and sign off on the plan review; or is this the responsibility of Building Official?

UB,

FM & myself are reviewing the plans to familiarize ourselves with the plans. FM has reviewed a few residential but no commercial.

We both agreed that plan review will be handled by third party plan check firm under contract with the city.

I posted a topic about fee schedules here:

http://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/commercial-fire-codes/10148-permit-fees-fire-sprinklers.html

and fire suppression systems here:

http://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/commercial-fire-codes/10149-another-question-re-usfs-fire-suppression-system.html

Hope this helps,

Sue

 

[cda]

Sounds good

Sounds like you need to at least charge the third party rate, plus what ever for the actual permit

 

[Alias]

Sounds good Sounds like you need to at least charge the third party rate, plus what ever for the actual permit

Permit fee goes to city, 25% of plan check fee for the city and 3rd party gets 75% of plan check fee.

It works and I am comfortable with the arrangement.

Sue