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Plumbing Fixture Count - By Floor?

N

nealderidder

Sawhorse
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
400
Location
Sacramento, CA
Hello all,

In CA, looking at plumbing fixture count. Imagine you've got a three story building. You need 10 water closets for men and 10 for women. Is there anything in the code preventing me from putting all 20 toilets on the third floor? Assume an accessible path exists to reach these toilets.

I don't see anything in the plumbing code telling me I need to provide fixtures "per floor" and nothing with any kind of maximum travel distance. Is there something I'm missing?

This is an extreme example and I wouldn't do it, just making the point obvious.

Let me know what you think.
 
Yes. An occupant should not have to travel more than 500 feet to a facility and not more than one story above or below the occupant's floor.

The occupants in the first story would need to go up two stories.
 
CA IBC - [P] 2902.3.3 Location of Toilet Facilities in Occupancies Other Than Malls
In occupancies other than covered and open mall buildings, the required public and employee toilet facilities shall be located not more than one story above or below the space required to be provided with toilet facilities, and the path of travel to such facilities shall not exceed a distance of 500 feet (152 m).

Exception: The location and maximum distances of travel to required employee facilities in factory and industrial occupancies are permitted to exceed that required by this section, provided that the location and maximum distance of travel are approved.​
 
Ty J. said:
CA IBC - [P] 2902.3.3 Location of Toilet Facilities in Occupancies Other Than Malls
In occupancies other than covered and open mall buildings, the required public and employee toilet facilities shall be located not more than one story above or below the space required to be provided with toilet facilities, and the path of travel to such facilities shall not exceed a distance of 500 feet (152 m).

Exception: The location and maximum distances of travel to required employee facilities in factory and industrial occupancies are permitted to exceed that required by this section, provided that the location and maximum distance of travel are approved.​
Click to expand...
Thanks Ty J., you beat me to it.
 
RLGA said:
Thanks Ty J., you beat me to it.
Click to expand...

I knew that came form somewhere, just couldn't find it!

A follow up question:

My imaginary building is now 5 stories tall. Understood that I can't send anyone to a toilet more than one floor up or down.

Do I have to calculate the required number of fixtures per floor? Can I calculate the required number of plumbing fixtures for the square footage of the entire building and then divide by 5? Maybe calculate per two floors?

You probably know what I'm getting at... In an office building there is a huge jump in number of required w.c. for women when I go from 100 to 101 occupants. Say I'm at 105 women per floor. That's 5x8 = 40 toilets required (only 25 for the men-w.c.+urinal). This would be for a roughly 42,000 SF area per floor.

If I count all of that floor area together I get (42,000 x 5)/200 = 525 women and 525 men. That yields a WC count of 12 for the women and 11 for the men (w.c. + urinal).

40 women's toilets feels like over kill for this office building but 12 feels a bit thin.

Anyone have a good method of doing this count? Just my luck t have a floor plate that yields just over the 100 women per floor...
 
Now with the virus you may find an unanticipated separation requirement (smiling).
Consider all unisex?
 
You can do it for the entire building, and if the occupant load is evenly distributed on all floors, then the plumbing fixtures can, too.

The problem comes when the occupant loads are not evenly distributed. For example, assume the entire 5th story is a large assembly space (e.g., a nightclub or restaurant). If you distributed the plumbing fixtures evenly among all floors, you would probably fall short of fixtures for the 5th story.
 
If it is all one tenant, I would calculate for the whole building's occupant load, then provide the fixtures in a equally dispersed configuration.

If multiple tenants, I would calculate per floor or per tenant space.
 
Ty J. said:
The only problem with this approach is if a future TI is done where one tenant takes an entire floor, it would be my opinion that most AHJ would only look at the fixtures on that floor as contributing to the fixture count.
Click to expand...

I see what you're saying. I think I'll be OK, these bathrooms are all in common/lobby areas and accessible to all.
 
nealderidder said:
Hello all,

In CA, looking at plumbing fixture count. Imagine you've got a three story building. You need 10 water closets for men and 10 for women. Is there anything in the code preventing me from putting all 20 toilets on the third floor? Assume an accessible path exists to reach these toilets.

I don't see anything in the plumbing code telling me I need to provide fixtures "per floor" and nothing with any kind of maximum travel distance. Is there something I'm missing?

This is an extreme example and I wouldn't do it, just making the point obvious.

Let me know what you think.
Click to expand...
I have set up several schedules based on Occupancy to determine Plumbing Counts. Each schedule seems to work with the exception of the "B Occupancy". I'm certain that others have had problems with the formula. Initially when I created my schedule, I created these parameters: WCMen, LavMen, WCWomen, and LavWomen to calculate the fixtures required. I also have created other parameters for this schedule. When I created the parameters for WCMen, LavMen, WCWomen and LavWomen I created them as a Calculated Value (i.e. Name: WCMen with the following formula: if((Men < 50), (Men / 25), (((Men - 50) / 50) + 2)). This formula seems to be calculating more than it should be. If I have a "B" Occupancy Group Classification and 358 Occupants. 2012 code indicates for water closets I need 1 per 25 for the first 50 and 1 per 50 for the remaining exceeding 50. So, 358 Occupants means I have 179 Men & 179 Women. Therefore 179 Occupants - 50 = 129, 129/50 = 2.58, 2.58+2=4.58, I would then be required 5 Water Closets. Apparently I am missing something with my formula. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. All my other schedules work but this one.
 
ameliasolis said:
I have set up several schedules based on Occupancy to determine Plumbing Counts. Each schedule seems to work with the exception of the "B Occupancy". I'm certain that others have had problems with the formula. Initially when I created my schedule, I created these parameters: WCMen, LavMen, WCWomen, and LavWomen to calculate the fixtures required. I also have created other parameters for this schedule. When I created the parameters for WCMen, LavMen, WCWomen and LavWomen I created them as a Calculated Value (i.e. Name: WCMen with the following formula: if((Men < 50), (Men / 25), (((Men - 50) / 50) + 2)). This formula seems to be calculating more than it should be. If I have a "B" Occupancy Group Classification and 358 Occupants. 2012 code indicates for water closets I need 1 per 25 for the first 50 and 1 per 50 for the remaining exceeding 50. So, 358 Occupants means I have 179 Men & 179 Women. emergency Plumber Therefore 179 Occupants - 50 = 129, 129/50 = 2.58, 2.58+2=4.58, I would then be required 5 Water Closets. Apparently I am missing something with my formula. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. All my other schedules work but this one.
Click to expand...
thanks in advance for any help
 
My sense that we are mixing up two issues namely access to toilet facilities and fixture count. The original and primary purpose of fixture count has to do with the sizing of the pipes.

I can imagine scenarios where for some individuals located on one floor the nearest facilities may be on an adjacent floor.

Do building codes address every possible scenario? No.

Is it the role of the building department to impose additional requirements when the code is vague? No.
 
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