• Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades

Pool ladder that do not require bonding

Rick18071

Sawhorse
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
3,011
Location
Poconos/eastern PA
I failed the 3 year electrical inspection required for public pools in PA because the pool ladder sockets were not bonded on a existing pool. The pool company claims they have coated metal ladders that do not need bonding.

I did not get any details yet. Anyone herd of these?
 

cda

Sawhorse 123
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
20,358
Location
Basement
One possible help::


SĀFTRON polymer rails are non-conductive. When used with SĀFTRON anchor sockets and bases, or installed directly into the deck, no grounding/bonding is required. SĀFTRON has been tested to be non-conductive by STR Laboratories. The current NEC code shows that SĀFTRON pool rails do not need to be grounded or bonded as the rails are sealed at the time of manufacturing. We have also received a letter form NFPA (NEC Codes) stating that they feel SĀFTRON pool rails are not required to be grounded or bonded.
 

Rick18071

Sawhorse
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
3,011
Location
Poconos/eastern PA
They might have those type of sockets that don't need bonding. They were white. How can I be sure. The maintenance guy was clueless.
I called back and told them that they may be the bondless kind and I need proof.
 

cda

Sawhorse 123
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
20,358
Location
Basement
They might have those type of sockets that don't need bonding. They were white. How can I be sure. The maintenance guy was clueless.
I called back and told them that they may be the bondless kind and I need proof.

Harbor Freight Multi-meter???

See if there is conductivity in the rail???
 

ICE

Moderator
Joined
Jun 23, 2011
Messages
9,609
Location
California concrete jungle
Item # 3 mentions rebar and then states that rebar that is encapsulated with a non-conductive compound is exempt from bonding. Item # 5 mentions metal fittings and then exempts metal fittings that are less that 4" in dimension and do not stick into the wall more than 1". There is no exemption for metal fittings that are encapsulated with a non-conductive compound.

My opinion is that the ladder and the sockets are fittings and shall be bonded whether they are encapsulated or not.


(B) Bonded Parts. The parts specified in 680.26(B)(1) through (B)(7) shall be bonded together using solid copper conductors, insulated covered, or bare, not smaller than 8 AWG

(3) Metallic Components. All metallic parts of the pool structure, including reinforcing metal not addressed in 680.26(B)(1)(a), shall be bonded. Where reinforcing steel is encapsulated with a nonconductive compound, the reinforcing steel shall not be required to be bonded.

(5) Metal Fittings. All metal fittings within or attached to the pool structure shall be bonded. Isolated parts that are not over 100 mm (4 in.) in any dimension and do not penetrate into the pool structure more than 25 mm (1 in.) shall not require bonding.
 

Rick18071

Sawhorse
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
3,011
Location
Poconos/eastern PA
Turns out the ladder sockets are not metal. I asked to see the pool ladders that were put away for the winter. They are metal! And it says for residential only on them. Two bads. They must of had non metal ladders at one time.

There are disagreements between the inspectors that do these 3 year PA Health Department inspections about what NEC code to use. The law is very vague, it was written in the 60's and just says the pools need to comply to the NEC. But it doesn't say which one. Some think it should be to the NEC that the pool was built under and some think it should be to the latest NEC, some think only certain sections of the latest NEC. I think it should be under the NEC that PA was using the last time they did a repair, like a new motor or ladder. It's crazy when different inspectors enforce different things in different NEC's every 3 years.

Thoughts?
 

steveray

Sawhorse
Joined
Nov 25, 2009
Messages
8,322
Location
West of the river CT
Item # 3 mentions rebar and then states that rebar that is encapsulated with a non-conductive compound is exempt from bonding. Item # 5 mentions metal fittings and then exempts metal fittings that are less that 4" in dimension and do not stick into the wall more than 1". There is no exemption for metal fittings that are encapsulated with a non-conductive compound.

My opinion is that the ladder and the sockets are fittings and shall be bonded whether they are encapsulated or not.


(B) Bonded Parts. The parts specified in 680.26(B)(1) through (B)(7) shall be bonded together using solid copper conductors, insulated covered, or bare, not smaller than 8 AWG

(3) Metallic Components. All metallic parts of the pool structure, including reinforcing metal not addressed in 680.26(B)(1)(a), shall be bonded. Where reinforcing steel is encapsulated with a nonconductive compound, the reinforcing steel shall not be required to be bonded.

(5) Metal Fittings. All metal fittings within or attached to the pool structure shall be bonded. Isolated parts that are not over 100 mm (4 in.) in any dimension and do not penetrate into the pool structure more than 25 mm (1 in.) shall not require bonding.
And #5 I don't believe applies to "non pool structural" parts such as the bolts for a sectional plastic slide within the 5'.....So bond each bolt....hopefully got a guy working on a code change for this....
 
Top