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Porti-potties

fatboy

fatboy

Administrator
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
6,891
Location
Northern CO
We have a potential new project being proposed, a Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) station, three islands, so six pumping stations. Basically unmanned, other than occasional service work. We made the scoping comment that a restroom would be required, but are getting some pushback as to whether plumbed restroom would be required, or is a porti acceptable? Or does the code really say one is required all? We believe the code does require one, and that yes, it must be plumbed, fixed installation. Have anyone allowed a porti to be placed as a substitute for a water closet?
 
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Is the gas station considered habitable ?.....Also, wouldn't this project be

similar to a cell tower equipment hut \ structure ?

Are you sure that a restroom is actually required ?



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How is the project classified, ...which Occ. Group ?

Possibly a " U " ?



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They sell CNG, we were leaning towards a B or M........and in our opinion due to "public use" not like a cell site, or even an oil well pump station.
 
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But there are no humans for the B or M capabilities ?

Why not a " U " Occ. Group [ i.e. - no one around, so

no requirements for restrooms ] ?

Also, ...this project sounds like an ATM application.

Pull up, ...get the fuel \ cash, ...pay with approved

non-cash method, ...product \ cash dispensed,

leave !



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Also, ...when an Occupancy Group is assigned, the term Occupancy Group

[ IMO ] usually indicates the structure will be occupied.

Your thoughts...



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Does this project have an enclosed structure or is it just outdoor pumping stations?

If there is no building, there is no occupant load and if there is no occupant load, there is no requirement for plumbing fixtures.
 
In my area, we have a few gas stations without mini-marts, where you pull up insert card and pump your gas and move along, they have portable baths on these locations, but I do not think a restroom is required or several jurisdictions around here have missed the boat on this one:) Are there going to be employees at the site?
 
Restroom for patrons. Few going to an ATM expect to be there long enough to avail themselves of facilities. Fueling stations for public use on the other hand are often used by travelers multi-tasking when they stop. Also not many ATMs around here are stand alone structures but are typically found in another business.

(too tired to look at the code right now... :P )
 
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Francis Vineyard said:
What about 2015 IPC 403.3 exception 2. ?
Click to expand...
6 fueling stations...........well over 300 s.f..

Interesting responses, I figured more on the required side...........
 
no debate in CA

BUSINESS AND PROFESSIONS CODE

SECTION 13650-13660

13650. "Service station," as used in this chapter, means any

establishment which offers for sale or sells gasoline or other motor

vehicle fuel to the public.

On and after January 1, 1990, every service station in

this state located within 660 feet of an accessible right-of-way of

an interstate or primary highway, as defined in Sections 5215 and

5220, shall provide, during business hours public restrooms for use

by its customers. Service stations shall not charge customers

separately for the use of restroom facilities.

(2) The public restroom shall not be temporary or portable but

shall be permanent and shall include separate facilities for men and

women, each with toilets and sinks suitable for use by disabled

persons in accordance with Section 19955.5 of the Health and Safety

Code and Title 24 of the California Code of Regulations.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=bpc&group=13001-14000&file=13650-13660
 
Except, CO does not enforce a State adopted code. So local AHJ's enforce what they adopt.........and interpret. But thanks for the input Mark.
 
fatboy said:
Except, CO does not enforce a State adopted code. So local AHJ's enforce what they adopt.........and interpret. But thanks for the input Mark.
Click to expand...
i does give you a hook to hang the hat
 
In Canada, for mercantile occupancies we are permitted to size the washrooms based solely on the number of staff when the building area does not exceed 300 square meters. Since there is no building area as defined by our code and no staff, we could not require washrooms.

Even though other codes might not be adopted, it looks a lot better to a judge if you use provisions that are under another code than make a judgment call. I have actually used some ICC and NFPA code provisions as they more adequately addressed some specific issues for unique construction than the National Building Code of Canada. But, my local bylaw does give me the power to do that based on approval by my town council.
 
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fatboy,

Are the proposed 6 pumping stations under a single canopy, or

individual canopies, ...the total Scope of the project ?.........Some

developers like the idea of selling additional merchandise [ i.e. -

food products, ...auto products, ...personal products, etc., etc. ].



& ~ & ~ &
 
MW-AU929_clean__20121002115313_MG.jpg


If it is something like this that serves the traveling public then it is an "M" under the building code and would require at least a single unisex/family restroom.

[P] 2902.3.2 Location of toilet facilities in occupancies other than malls.

In occupancies other than covered and open mall buildings, the required public and employee toilet facilities shall be located not more than one story above or below the space required to be provided with toilet facilities, and the path of travel to such facilities shall not exceed a distance of 500 feet (152 m).

We have accepted recorded documentation that one entity will allow their restrooms with another. 300 sq ft drive up coffee stand located in the parking lot of a 24 hour grocery store for example.
 
Not required, unmanned business. The structure (canopy) is not normally occupied.

Sec. 2902.1 ex 2
 
The structure (canopy) is not normally occupied.
Click to expand...
It is occupied every time a customer pulls up to the pump for fuel. Does not matter what the fuel type is.

2902.1

Occupancy classification shall be determined in accordance with Chapter 3.

309.1 Mercantile Group M.

Mercantile Group M occupancy includes, among others, the use of a building or structure or a portion thereof, for the display and sale of merchandise and involves stocks of goods, wares or merchandise incidental to such purposes and accessible to the public. Mercantile occupancies shall include, but not be limited to, the following:

Department stores

Drug stores

Markets

Motor fuel-dispensing facilities

Retail or wholesale stores

Sales rooms

[A] STRUCTURE. That which is built or constructed.
 
Should it come up for discussion there's a proposal to change the word "in" to "for". Provides consistency for amusement parks having several structures, factories and museums with several buildings that are served with a central restroom facility.

403.3 Required public toilet facilities.

Customers, patrons and visitors shall be provided with public toilet facilities (delete) "in" structures and tenant spaces intended for public utilization. The number of plumbing fixtures located within the required toilet facilities shall be provided in accordance with :Next('./icod_ipc_2012_4_par008.htm')'>Section 403 for all users. Employees shall be provided with toilet facilities in all occupancies. Employee toilet facilities shall be either separate or combined employee and public toilet facilities.

403.3 Required public toilet facilities.

Customers, patrons and visitors shall be provided with public toilet facilities (add) "for" structures and tenant spaces intended for public utilization. The number of plumbing fixtures located within the required toilet facilities shall be provided in accordance with :Next('./icod_ipc_2012_4_par008.htm')'>Section 403 for all users. Employees shall be provided with toilet facilities in all occupancies. Employee toilet facilities shall be either separate or combined employee and public toilet facilities.

PUBLIC OR PUBLIC UTILIZATION. In the classification of plumbing fixtures, "public” applies to fixtures in general toilet rooms of schools, gymnasiums, hotels, airports, bus and railroad stations, public buildings, bars, public comfort stations, office buildings, stadiums, stores, restaurants and other installations where a number of fixtures are installed so that their utilization is similarly unrestricted.
 
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