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R-2 Sprinkler System

J

Jonathan Shoemaker

Registered User
Joined
Jun 8, 2017
Messages
19
Location
Texas
I have a two story duplex/apartment I am remodeling. It will have 3-4 separate apartments once complete. I read in section 903 that two or more units require sprinklers. The fire department reads this as well, but really does not get involved in the inspection process. I believe I need sprinklers. The building inspector does not think I need them because I will not have more than 4 units. I don't read anything about 4 or more units. I am trying to locate something in writing either way so I can do it right the first time and he does not come back in 6 months changing his mind.
 
You can ask the local building inspector for a written interpretation. It might take some time to get it though.
 
mtlogcabin said:
Might depend on local amendments. What state are you in?
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I am in Texas. My city does not have any amendments to the building codes. They have never actually been enforced until the last couple months. We just got a new building inspector that works a couple hours a week.
 
tmurray said:
You can ask the local building inspector for a written interpretation. It might take some time to get it though.
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I doubt that will happen. He only works a couple hours a week and you can't get a hold of him. City hall is a joke as well. We have never had a building inspector that inspects, its always been a rubber stamp. Now we have one, but the city is not set up to use him and he is not set up to work with the city. It's a mess. All of this to say, he is inspecting properties with permits tho.
 
Jonathan Shoemaker said:
I have a two story duplex/apartment I am remodeling. It will have 3-4 separate apartments once complete. I read in section 903 that two or more units require sprinklers. The fire department reads this as well, but really does not get involved in the inspection process. I believe I need sprinklers. The building inspector does not think I need them because I will not have more than 4 units. I don't read anything about 4 or more units. I am trying to locate something in writing either way so I can do it right the first time and he does not come back in 6 months changing his mind.
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Is this in an incorporated city

Or Texas county area??

You say remodel explain a little more

What was it like before remodel??
 
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Jonathan Shoemaker said:
I have a two story duplex/apartment I am remodeling. It will have 3-4 separate apartments once complete. I read in section 903 that two or more units require sprinklers. The fire department reads this as well, but really does not get involved in the inspection process. I believe I need sprinklers. The building inspector does not think I need them because I will not have more than 4 units. I don't read anything about 4 or more units. I am trying to locate something in writing either way so I can do it right the first time and he does not come back in 6 months changing his mind.
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What edition of code are you looking at??
 
Lots of variables to your question: What Year Code are you using? What level of alteration is it as defined in the IEBC? Does the code in your area under any State or local amendments?
2015 IFC requires all R occ. to be sprinkled if i remember correctly.
 
my250r11 said:
Lots of variables to your question: What Year Code are you using? What level of alteration is it as defined in the IEBC? Does the code in your area under any State or local amendments?
2015 IFC requires all R occ. to be sprinkled if i remember correctly.
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2015 Code, not familiar with the alteration question but it is a complete gut job, and we have no local amendments. I read it plain as day that I need sprinklers. I believe I need them. I also have never built to code or read a code book, so I second guess myself when the building inspector himself says I do NOT need them and then says he thinks it apply to 4 or more units. I don't read any of that. It makes me wonder if I am missing something.
 
You can use a 13R system in 4 stories or less/ or not exceeding 60ft. IBC 2015-903.3.1.2

2015 IBC-903.2.8 Requires all R occ. to be sprinkled, same in IFC
 
2012 IEBC does not require it to have a fire suppression system installed in a 2 story R Occupancy. Check the 2015 sections I do not have a copy to see if there was a change

904.1 Automatic sprinkler systems.
Automatic sprinkler systems shall be provided in all work areas when required by Section 804.2 or this section.

804.2.2 Groups A, B, E, F-1, H, I, M, R-1, R-2, R-4, S-1 and S-2.
In buildings with occupancies in Groups A, B, E, F-1, H, I, M, R-1, R-2, R-4, S-1 and S-2, work areas that have exits or corridors shared by more than one tenant or that have exits or corridors serving an occupant load greater than 30 shall be provided with automatic sprinkler protection where all of the following conditions occur:

1. The work area is required to be provided with automatic sprinkler protection in accordance with the International Building Code as applicable to new construction; and

2. The work area exceeds 50 percent of the floor area.

Exceptions:

1. Work areas in Group R occupancies three stories or less in height.

2. If the building does not have sufficient municipal water supply for design of a fire sprinkler system available to the floor without installation of a new fire pump, work areas shall be protected by an automatic smoke detection system throughout all occupiable spaces other than sleeping units or individual dwelling units that activates the occupant notification system in accordance with Sections 907.4, 907.5 and 907.6 of the International Building Code.
 
What was it like before remodel??

Four units

Two units

Someone's house

Just basically doing cosmetic new sinks, tile, flooring paint??

No moving any walls?
 
mtlogcabin said:
2012 IEBC does not require it to have a fire suppression system installed in a 2 story R Occupancy. Check the 2015 sections I do not have a copy to see if there was a change

904.1 Automatic sprinkler systems.
Automatic sprinkler systems shall be provided in all work areas when required by Section 804.2 or this section.

804.2.2 Groups A, B, E, F-1, H, I, M, R-1, R-2, R-4, S-1 and S-2.
In buildings with occupancies in Groups A, B, E, F-1, H, I, M, R-1, R-2, R-4, S-1 and S-2, work areas that have exits or corridors shared by more than one tenant or that have exits or corridors serving an occupant load greater than 30 shall be provided with automatic sprinkler protection where all of the following conditions occur:

1. The work area is required to be provided with automatic sprinkler protection in accordance with the International Building Code as applicable to new construction; and

2. The work area exceeds 50 percent of the floor area.

Exceptions:

1. Work areas in Group R occupancies three stories or less in height.

2. If the building does not have sufficient municipal water supply for design of a fire sprinkler system available to the floor without installation of a new fire pump, work areas shall be protected by an automatic smoke detection system throughout all occupiable spaces other than sleeping units or individual dwelling units that activates the occupant notification system in accordance with Sections 907.4, 907.5 and 907.6 of the International Building Code.
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Three stories or less looks to be omited, but everything else is the same.
 
my250r11 said:
Sorry, 2015 IBC & IFC Require spinklers unless it is amended
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That's how I read it. Not sure how the Building inspector came up with something different. How does the existing building code effect this? I saw someone refer to the existing building code. I find myself going between the Residential Code, Building Code, and Existing Building Code. Once I am comfortable with my reading, it becomes a blur am getting turned around and confused now. Seems to me it would be easier to stay away from the existing building code. confused
 
cda said:
What was it like before remodel??

Four units

Two units

Someone's house

Just basically doing cosmetic new sinks, tile, flooring paint??

No moving any walls?[/QUOTE

6 Units down to 3-4 units. The duplex used to be a 2 story house, so all I have to do is unboard the doorways in the structure that they closed off to make seperate units. It is a shiplap house, so it has the real 3/4 wood constructions all through it. I am replacing sheet rock, windows, doors, new floors, new plumbing and electrical, it's all going to be new.
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my250r11 said:
Would be a level 3 alteration and 2015 IEBC-804.2.2 require sprinklers also.
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Can you explain how the existing building code fits in with the Building code and residential code? I have all three and I am reading them. I also bounce back and forth, but it starts to screw me up. Seems like I could just pick the building code, suck it up, and not try to find loopholes in the existing building code. Does that makes since or and I screwed up again?
 
Must not have zoning there. Went from a Duplex to multi-family.

You'll notice that mtnlogcabin post #15, section 804.2.2 excludes R-3 (One -Two family dwelling) cuz you use another code book.

Also the IEBC has to be adopted by that AHJ to allow its use.
 
Not an IEBC person

But first either a city has to adopt it to be enforced

Or if not adopted and you want to use it ,, get a city to use it as an alternative

Would have to read the scope, but I think if you are working on an existing building you do not have to bring everything up to code
 
mtlogcabin said:
2012 IEBC does not require it to have a fire suppression system installed in a 2 story R Occupancy. Check the 2015 sections I do not have a copy to see if there was a change

904.1 Automatic sprinkler systems.
Automatic sprinkler systems shall be provided in all work areas when required by Section 804.2 or this section.

804.2.2 Groups A, B, E, F-1, H, I, M, R-1, R-2, R-4, S-1 and S-2.
In buildings with occupancies in Groups A, B, E, F-1, H, I, M, R-1, R-2, R-4, S-1 and S-2, work areas that have exits or corridors shared by more than one tenant or that have exits or corridors serving an occupant load greater than 30 shall be provided with automatic sprinkler protection where all of the following conditions occur:

1. The work area is required to be provided with automatic sprinkler protection in accordance with the International Building Code as applicable to new construction; and

2. The work area exceeds 50 percent of the floor area.

Exceptions:

1. Work areas in Group R occupancies three stories or less in height.

2. If the building does not have sufficient municipal water supply for design of a fire sprinkler system available to the floor without installation of a new fire pump, work areas shall be protected by an automatic smoke detection system throughout all occupiable spaces other than sleeping units or individual dwelling units that activates the occupant notification system in accordance with Sections 907.4, 907.5 and 907.6 of the International Building Code.
Click to expand...


2015 IEBC does not have that exception.
 
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