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R703.8 Window flashing no longer required

jar546

jar546

CBO
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
12,723
Location
Not where I really want to be
Apparently when you are 85% done siding the house (vinyl) and the code official catches your lack of any flashing whatsoever, ..............flashing is not required because the siding is already up and it is too cold to take the siding off and properly flash the windows.

I did not know that was an exception in the IRC.

I also found out that this is the code officials fault for not telling them before they put the siding on.

Was this a 2006 or 2009 change?:grin:
 
I believe that if you read further, the code also eliminates the requirement for flashing if the flashing material, or the installation thereof, bears a cost.

"...You know how much cost that's gonna add, Mr. Inspector??!!!???"
 
""...You know how much cost that's gonna add, Mr. Inspector??!!!???" "

Won't cost as much as it'll cost the unfortunate owner three years down the road.

Good catch Jar456.

Bill
 
jar, I can't find that in Section R703.8. Is that a PA amendment?
 
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This is how it went down:

I wrote it up during an inspection today and explained it to the worker who was doing the siding for the GC. He gave me some lip then stated he has never had to do this in the past 25 years and he even built homes on the "coast". I left them with the appropriate paperwork.

I then sent an email to the GC telling him the paperwork was at the jobsite and in the email I copied 703.8 for his convenience.

This is the response that I got from him:

Jeff, Is there an acceptable alternative to the existing windows that are already sided. I currently have XXXXXX applying the adhesive flashing for the doors and windows on the rear of the house and garage that were not completed or easily corrected. All the windows are wrapped with house wrap.

In addition, please advise a time for us to meet so I can finalized the garage repair submission to your satisfaction. Thanks

Click to expand...
This was my response:

Compliance with R703.8 is the only method of compliance. I will not be available until Wednesday of next week.

Jeff

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Which elicited this response from the GC:

Jeff, You have been more than helpful during this process and I understand that you have a job to do. Is there anyway to get a wavier on the existing windows and doors that are sided. We silicon all our J trim. I can get the home owner to send a letter or what ever, I am just Trying to avoid taking all the siding down in this cold weather. I have tried to get good subs that know the code and am contracting the insulation out to meet fire caulking, etc.( BTW-thanks for that recommendation). In any event, I asking for more help, it that is possible. Thanks

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Which led to this response from me:

I can issue a temporary C of O when the job is done pending the completion of the flashing when the weather warms up. So if you are finished in February and I give it 90 days, you can make the fix in warmer weather such as April or May before the temporary C of O runs out.
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Of course, this is the response from me trying to work with him on this one:

Certainly not the answer I was looking for. I was you would have caught it when you were their on other inspections This one is hurting me. It is a big job to tear that siding off warm weather or not. I did what was required for the garage....can't you let me slide on the windows? I am trying man.....Please
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This is my last response which I am done playing games. You guys know that we can certainly play hardball if we want to but again, I am trying to not be a prick:

You are asking me to break the law which I cannot afford to do for several reasons. It is not my job to get you out of situations that you and/or your crew has put yourself into.This is my career and I cannot afford to be disciplined by PA L&I or be caught up in a future lawsuit. I have already done expert witness against a contractor who did something similar which caused $16,000 worth of damage over a 5 year period.

I too have learned lessons the hard way but that is no excuse for not meeting minimum standards.

Click to expand...
 
WOW....sounds like a fun one.

I screwed up.....so what are YOU going to do to help me........
 
We were allowing the siders to do it when they got to them on scaffolding, but too many times driving by and not seeing it, we now require it @ the framing inspection, does not make them happy, but at least the wndws are getting flashed now.
 
& & & &

All codes, ...standards, ...laws, ...ordinances, ...rules, ...suggestions, ...requirements,

...common practices, ...statutes, ...regulations, ...orders, ...integrity, ...decrees,

...commands, ...guides, ...good sense, ...common courtesies get overruled by the elected

officials........This seemingly "all-too-common" practice was / is part of the hiring agreement

between the employee and the employer, regardless of what has been adopted as

law, or understood to be law in every jurisdiction, ...everywhere.......What, ...they didn't

tell you this when you were hired?......I am shocked, ...just absolutely shocked! :D

jar546, Key Largo wasn't a viable location? Just asking...

& & & &
 
jar546 said:
R703.8 has been there for some time. It is straight out of the IRC
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I was not saying I can't find the section, I can't find the part about not requiring them to flash the windows if you don't catch them on time.
 
The only out that may exist for the contractor at this time is if the window manufactures installation instructions will allow an alternative of some kind. I doubt it exists but some only require a minimal flashing/tape width which could be covered by window trim and not require removal of the siding just cut it back some flasit and trim back over the flashing.
 
Sorry jar, I'm kind of slow today. I didn't notice your facetious smiley face at the end of your post. I almost believed there was an exception.

Yep, it's a huge issue here with water intrusion.
 
Proper window flashing is a very big deal. I cannot imagine any window manufacturer not requiring it. Moisture intrusion is considered by many to be the single most important factor causing building performance failure due to premature deterioration of materials. The contractor should know this (and probably does) and the homeowner(s) and lender(s)will eventually suffer the consequences if this is not done correctly.

http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/guides-and-manuals/gm-residential-water-management-details/view?searchterm=window+flashing
 
Wouldn't consider installing a window without tape, flashing etc. Having said that, do I assume these are not new flanged windows since they are considered self-flashing under 703.8?
 
conarb said:
To my knowledge that is no such thing.
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Like many construction terms, the manufacturers terms do not coincide with the terms used in the field

Flanged windows are windows with flanges, and they do exist.

The code uses gypsum wall board, so with your logic you can no longer use the term drywall.
 
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Mark said:
Flanged windows are windows with flanges, and they do exist.
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Flanged windows are not self-flashing, ask any window manufacturer, in fact many call their flanges "nailing flanges" so they are not liable if the windows are improperly flashed, saying that the flanges are only there for attachment and not water sealing. If nailing flanges were considered "self-flashing" then 95% of the windows manufactured today would be self-flashing and wouldn't require flashing.
 
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