• Welcome to The Building Code Forum

    Your premier resource for building code knowledge.

    This forum remains free to the public thanks to the generous support of our Sawhorse Members and Corporate Sponsors. Their contributions help keep this community thriving and accessible.

    Want enhanced access to expert discussions and exclusive features? Learn more about the benefits here.

    Ready to upgrade? Log in and upgrade now.

Rails and benches?

RJJ

RJJ

Co-Founder
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
2,939
Location
about 1' east of the white water
I am wondering how you all fair on this issue! Contractor want to build seats along a rail line of a deck. The deck is going to be 8' off of grade. He wants to build a standard height rail. What your take on the rail height? From the floor of the deck or the seat of the bench?
 
Re: Rails and benches?

Bad situation on that one! Even though the code says "floor" you would have a very dangerous condition. Gotta be something out there to require a higher guard!

Just think......an 18" bench would only have an additional 18" of protection. Don't lean back too far....or let your baby's on the deck!
 
Re: Rails and benches?

Mule,

Can't disagree with you about the potential hazard. But remember it took the IBC until 2006 to address babies falling out of windows when the window extends to the floor. IBC (2006) Section 1013.2 mentions "seatboard", but that is for stadia where bench seating extends to the railing. In that case, a fan standing on the seatboard would be at a higher risk of falling over the rail if it is 42 inches above the floor.
 
Re: Rails and benches?

The 09 IRC addresses this situation and requires the height of the guard to be measured from the top of the bench. But prior additions to the code did not recognize this and the height of the guard would be measured from the floor.
 
Re: Rails and benches?

rjj,

What is to prevent a toddler from pushing a chair to the guardrail creating the same conditon? We can't codifically solve every perceived problem.
 
Re: Rails and benches?

I agree! To me this has been a issue that has been left unclear. Just like the window issue and they place a bed in front of it. We can solve everything.
 
Re: Rails and benches?

rjj,

I view decks in a similar manner as swimming pools. The code can only build in so many reasonable safety features. The parents still need to take responsibility. I can think of many benches along senic views where I can sit and enjoy the vista. Now, with the guardrail 42 inches above that seat, the view will be obstructed.
 
Re: Rails and benches?

I have always interpreted the guardrail to be 36" higher than the seat. Some didn't agree but they were not the AHJ.
 
Re: Rails and benches?

incognito: Me too! It has been a topic of argument for quite a while. At least now someone has but ink to a page that an inspector can point to.

Coug dad: I totally agree. Some of the things placed in the code in the name of safety mean very little in the big picture. The problem is that we are held to a system of chapter and verse. If we try apply use commen sense, then we start to make up code where it doesn't exist. I believe we all could agree that this is not good.

I have done the same as incognito on the rail height in the pass. Was I correct? No! Do I feel it was a little safer? Yes! Still not code! wrong interpretation. Maybe a little bullying to force the issue. A good area for further discussion.

Just when should we cross the line an put our own two cent add on to the code? Should we just apply the code as written? Is there a section of code that allows us to stray? Oh ya when approved by the code official! Just some thoughts.
 
Re: Rails and benches?

Coug Dad said:
rjj,What is to prevent a toddler from pushing a chair to the guardrail creating the same conditon?
Click to expand...
Electrify the rail...and nail the kid's feet to the floor.

I think the committee's really ought to look at requiring both in the 2012 cycle.
 
Re: Rails and benches?

Coug Dad said:
rjj,What is to prevent a toddler from pushing a chair to the guardrail creating the same conditon? We can't codifically solve every perceived problem.
Click to expand...
The chair on the deck is not permanently constructed as part of the deck permit and is not regulated by the code.
 
Re: Rails and benches?

{devil's advocate}

1- Deck is 12" above grade, 18" benches are built and fastened to deck.

Are guards now required to be at 66" above grade?

2- Deck is built with 36" wood rails and matching wood benches NOT fastened or secured to deck.

Are higher guards required?

3- Same deck again, benches WITH 20" backrests secured to deck. Junior could climb on the seat then onto the bench back.

are guards required above the backrest?

My interpretation has always been for the guard to prevent someone from walking/tripping off a 30" high deck. If a bench is placed as illustrated in 1, 2, or 3, the intent has been met.

mj
 
Re: Rails and benches?

can't control the "what if's" with Code enforcement. A built in bench on the deck presents it's own set of hazards.. that we have addressed in 2009.

What if someone isn't a good parent in the first place? We can't control that... just like we can't control what they do with movable furniture.. fixed benches.. we absolutely can do something about...

What if you don't trust the homeowner or builder? Take a picture with a camera equipped with a time/date stamp.. upload it and e-mail to your home e-mail account.. and save it.

"Your honor.. this is what it looked like when I did the final inspection"..

When Junior falls over the rail and is vegetating in the hospital.. you'll be happy you have that..it's kind of like copyrighting something..
 
Re: Rails and benches?

TJacobs said:
Coug Dad said:
rjj,What is to prevent a toddler from pushing a chair to the guardrail creating the same conditon? We can't codifically solve every perceived problem.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
The chair on the deck is not permanently constructed as part of the deck permit and is not regulated by the code.

Good God! We need to close this loophole.

Hopefully we can in the 2012 code.

Too many people are getting away with this.
 
Re: Rails and benches?

peach said:
can't control the "what if's" with Code enforcement. A built in bench on the deck presents it's own set of hazards.. that we have addressed in 2009.What if someone isn't a good parent in the first place? We can't control that... just like we can't control what they do with movable furniture.. fixed benches.. we absolutely can do something about...

What if you don't trust the homeowner or builder? Take a picture with a camera equipped with a time/date stamp.. upload it and e-mail to your home e-mail account.. and save it.

"Your honor.. this is what it looked like when I did the final inspection"..

When Junior falls over the rail and is vegetating in the hospital.. you'll be happy you have that..it's kind of like copyrighting something..
Click to expand...
Most what ifs end with a child's death.

It's high time the IRC addressed this loophole.
 
Re: Rails and benches?

Peach: Some courts will not honor digital pictures! They can be altered. However, 35mm prints are still excepted in all court rooms. Check with your town Lawyer on this, if you have a situations that may become sticky use a 35mm camera for your back up proof!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top