Reasons Why Building Permit Application Packages are Rejected by Permit Technicians

[jar546]

Hey Permit Techs,
How about letting us know the biggest problem you encounter with building permit packages that cause them to be denied or rejected. What is number one on your list?

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

Too soon for our department. Our state only recently started recognizing permit technicians. The first class was held only about ten days ago. Our office administrator took the class and is now certified, but it's far too soon for her to have developed any track record of rejecting deficient applications.

 

[IrishEyes]

Improperly filled out forms. I see a lot of applications that lack the most basic information that we need. Most places have a checklist of items that are required for each permit type that can be emailed to you or it’s right on the website in which you need to apply. By being proactive and taking the time to research that, makes the permit process much smoother. Fill out the forms completely and if you don’t know, call or email. Depending on the size of the town, you should get an answer that day. We want you to get your permit as quickly as possible. So help us, help you.

 

[Feanor]

I wish that the USA would unify the permit processes to avoid so much red tape. Even inside the same state, all the AHJ change their forms, websites, based on if it is County, City, State, etc. I know its hard to do, but it has to happen some day.

 

[bill1952]

With so much being decided by higher levels of government and the model code organizations, things like forms and check lists are one of the few things left that the local people can control.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

I wish that the USA would unify the permit processes to avoid so much red tape. Even inside the same state, all the AHJ change their forms, websites, based on if it is County, City, State, etc. I know its hard to do, but it has to happen some day.

Years -- in fact, decades -- ago our state legislature mandated that the state building inspector develop a uniform permit application form. But ... they didn't mandate that anyone use it. This was four or five state building inspectors back. The SBI's office created the form and it has been available on their web site ever since but, as far as I know, not a single municipality in the state has adopted it.

 

[jar546]

Years -- in fact, decades -- ago our state legislature mandated that the state building inspector develop a uniform permit application form. But ... they didn't mandate that anyone use it. This was four or five state building inspectors back. The SBI's office created the form and it has been available on their web site ever since but, as far as I know, not a single municipality in the state has adopted it.

About 30 of the 39 municipalities in our county use a universal permit application.

 

[Mark K]

I wish that the USA would unify the permit processes to avoid so much red tape. Even inside the same state, all the AHJ change their forms, websites, based on if it is County, City, State, etc. I know its hard to do, but it has to happen some day.

The Feds will never unify the permit process since building regulations are one of the things reserved for the States. If there is a desire for uniformity within a state this can be provided by the state Legislature

What we do have is the model codes developed by ICC which most if not all states have accepted as a starting point.

 

[fatboy]

Back to the question, the #1 reason they get rejected/stalled out of the gate, lack of the basic information listed on the application.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

I suspect one of the reasons our counter people are going to start rejecting applications is the registered design professional's seal. Our state law requires that architects and professional engineers either "live" seal and sign each sheet, or use a digital (not "electronic") seal/signature that's verifiable by a third-party authentication service. Virtually all the plans we see coming in have an image of the seal and signature, not live sealed and signed, but when the electronic version of the documents is opened in Adobe or Bluebeam, there's no indication that the documents were properly digitally signed.

In other words -- the RDP just made a JPEG scan of their seal and signature and they paste it onto their title block sheet. Aside from the fact that Adobe or Bluebeam don't indicate a digital signature, it's easy to spot the scans by just flipping through the set on screen. If the seal doesn't shift even a fraction of an inch from sheet to sheet, and the signature is always in exactly the same position on every sheet -- it's a scan.

 

[ICE]

The advent of online permitting was a roadblock of epic proportions. It was always a dream of the County administrators to force the populace to go paperless; Covid-19 provided the opportunity. Prior to the lock-down people filled out a permit application at a public counter with the help of, (well let's not get carried away with this), a permit tech. If they stumbled with a line on a form they could point and ask a question, or seven. Now they are staring at a computer screen wishing they could ask half a question.

The mistakes that I witnessed were bought and paid for. I found them on a permit as I went to perform an inspection. These are actual examples; Residential all of it----32 backwater valves----transformers----200 120v receptacles----boilers----and on it goes.

Somehow a permit tech issued the permit with $1216.00 worth of backwater valves on a project that didn't require even one. I would bring these errors to the attention of the office manager. I was told to stop looking for the mistakes as that would cause extra work in issuing refunds. While you might think that the lack of caring was motivated by a loss of revenue... you would be wrong. Money means nothing to them...it's the light that would shine on the ineptitude that bothers.

When I say that money is meaningless it works both ways. They don't care how much we waste and they don't care how much the customer spends.

I had a flat residential project in a built out 1950 subdivision. I showed up for an under-slab plumbing inspection and was handed a soils report from an engineer. I was surprised. Later on I asked our new grading&drainage engineer why he required a soils report. He said that having been recently assigned to this district office he wanted to know what soil type we had in this area. Had he bothered to ask I could have told him that we have brown, black and tan---sometimes all three on the same lot.

 

[jar546]

The advent of online permitting was a roadblock of epic proportions.

I cannot agree with that in the least bit. We have had positive feedback, better communication, transparency, production, workflow, accountability, and most importantly, happier contractors and permit runners. It is easier for everyone involved because it is more efficient. Maybe you worked in an inept area and struggle yourself with technology, but the effect in my towns has been quite the opposite.

Somehow a permit tech issued the permit with $1216.00 worth of backwater valves on a project that didn't require even one.

Permit techs are not supposed to be issuing permits, just processing the administration side of things. Your building official or plans examiner dropped the ball on that one.

I had a flat residential project in a built out 1950 subdivision. I showed up for an under-slab plumbing inspection and was handed a soils report from an engineer. I was surprised. Later on I asked our new grading&drainage engineer why he required a soils report. He said that having been recently assigned to this district office he wanted to know what soil type we had in this area. Had he bothered to ask I could have told him that we have brown, black and tan---sometimes all three on the same lot.

The engineer who did the review did the right thing which is why you were suprised.

 

[ICE]

I cannot agree with that in the least bit.

Well you were not here. It's not so much about my computer skills as it is with the skills of the permit applicants. Perhaps the multitude of ethnic groups plays a role, but not a lot has improved. As you skillfully pointed out, it's way different in your part of Florida.

Permit techs are not supposed to be issuing permits, just processing the administration side of things. Your building official or plans examiner dropped the ball on that one.

That's some rarefied air that you breath. Permit techs have been issuing permits in LA County since the beginning.

The engineer who did the review did the right thing which is why you were suprised.

The engineer caused an unnecessary expense that produced no worthwhile result. The default soil type is expansive. The engineering always assumes expansive. The only odd soil is sand...which is what's chapping .....

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

I cannot agree with that in the least bit. We have had positive feedback, better communication, transparency, production, workflow, accountability, and most importantly, happier contractors and permit runners. It is easier for everyone involved because it is more efficient. Maybe you worked in an inept area and struggle yourself with technology, but the effect in my towns has been quite the opposite.

You have been singularly blessed, but please don't extrapolate to think that your experience echoes that of the rest of the world. I have been at my current position for almost three years, and they went to on-line permit applications well before I started there. It's the exception rather than the rule if we get an application that's filled out anywhere near completely or correctly. We have three women in the front office, and they spend an inordinate amount of time on the phones, trying to explain to applicants how to enter their own name as applicant, and then how to click a box for "Next."

 

[SCBO1]

You have been singularly blessed,

Some of you have been singularly blessed if you have a Permit Tech? Here we call that the position: Building Official.

My salary does not reflect the combined cost of those two positions, so the community ether "weeps in sorrow" or "rejoices in Hallelujahs!" You get what you pay for!

 

[tmurray]

Improperly filled out forms. I see a lot of applications that lack the most basic information that we need. Most places have a checklist of items that are required for each permit type that can be emailed to you or it’s right on the website in which you need to apply. By being proactive and taking the time to research that, makes the permit process much smoother. Fill out the forms completely and if you don’t know, call or email. Depending on the size of the town, you should get an answer that day. We want you to get your permit as quickly as possible. So help us, help you.

Back when I was on the municipal side, this is very much what I saw as well. We even had a checklist of required documents on every single class of permit. People still didn't submit everything and had the nerve to complain about permit approval delays.

 

[rktect 1]

#1 reason?

People are simply so lazy these days they can't be bothered to fill out a simple application correctly and fully and read on the handouts located on the website or at the front counter (hard copy) of supporting information required for each specific project.

 

[bill1952]

This and the online permitting are somewhat amusing living in area with 1 employee responsible for all things building and zoning. I sort of enjoy walking into the basement offices (historic "opera" house above) and saying hello to the village employees as I walk back to his office, with forms that may have first been written on a manual typewriter and xeroxed many times, filled in by hand.

 

[jar546]

This and the online permitting are somewhat amusing living in area with 1 employee responsible for all things building and zoning. I sort of enjoy walking into the basement offices (historic "opera" house above) and saying hello to the village employees as I walk back to his office, with forms that may have first been written on a manual typewriter and xeroxed many times, filled in by hand.

It's better recordkeeping and transparent for the public plus plus plus.

 

[bill1952]

It's better recordkeeping and transparent for the public plus plus plus.

Here or in your jurisdiction with it all electronic?

 

[Feanor]

If the permit applications were so easy to follow, people would not make so many errors or omissions. Online applications are the way to go.

Omaha (NE) has a great permit portal where you fill in all applications. LADBS (Los Angeles) has a very good permit portal. The City of Miami (FL) still requires completing pdf applications in which you can easily make mistakes. You can seldom complete it right the first time. However, they have a Project file upload system (Project Dox) that allows you to alert the plan checker when you respond to their comments so you can improve your permit time.
I believe that there is simply not enough interactive information online to understand the permit process. Some places are better than others.

 

[jar546]

Here or in your jurisdiction with it all electronic?

In my opinion, whether a one-man operation or a large city, paperless permitting is the way to go. There are all sorts of programs for everyone's budget. It just does not make sense to not be paperless and have apps on your phone for inspections too. Sooooo much easier and done on the fly and incorporate photos too.

 

[Yikes]

I suspect one of the reasons our counter people are going to start rejecting applications is the registered design professional's seal. Our state law requires that architects and professional engineers either "live" seal and sign each sheet, or use a digital (not "electronic") seal/signature that's verifiable by a third-party authentication service. Virtually all the plans we see coming in have an image of the seal and signature, not live sealed and signed, but when the electronic version of the documents is opened in Adobe or Bluebeam, there's no indication that the documents were properly digitally signed.

In other words -- the RDP just made a JPEG scan of their seal and signature and they paste it onto their title block sheet. Aside from the fact that Adobe or Bluebeam don't indicate a digital signature, it's easy to spot the scans by just flipping through the set on screen. If the seal doesn't shift even a fraction of an inch from sheet to sheet, and the signature is always in exactly the same position on every sheet -- it's a scan.

Oddly, the state of California (which normally loves additional regulation) is just fine with stamps and signatures applied by a printer or plotter:

"In the California State Board for Professional Engineers and Land Surveyors Rules (16 CCR §411), the required seal on the plans shall be capable of leaving a permanent ink representation, an opaque and permanent impression, or an electronically-generated representation on the documents. The signature may be applied to the documents electronically. Preprinting of blank forms with the seal or signature, the use of decals of the seal or signature, or the use of a rubberstamp of the signature is prohibited".​

Excerpt is from City of Los Angeles' policy document on stamping / signing of documents: https://www.ladbs.org/docs/default-source/publications/information-bulletins/building-code/ib-p-bc-2023-073-policy-4-stamped-plans.pdf?sfvrsn=95a5dc53_7

 

[bill1952]

In my opinion, whether a one-man operation or a large city, paperless permitting is the way to go. There are all sorts of programs for everyone's budget. It just does not make sense to not be paperless and have apps on your phone for inspections too. Sooooo much easier and done on the fly and incorporate photos too.

Tough on the Amish. When my lumber is ready they send a letter by first class mail.