rebar inspection on swimming pools

[codeworks]

Ok, i'm in a new job, new jurisdiction, haven't done inspections for awhile now. Looking at a pool, pre gunite. Steel looks great, tied up nice, bonded properly, in 4 or 5 spots it does however hit the side wall form (#4 bar dead ends into side wall form) i consider that a code violation because there is not proper clearance , due to the fact that the steel is hitting the form work. Any comments are appreciated. I'm not arguieng this with anyone, i am sure it's incorrect. If i'm wrong y'all will let me know, thanks in advance

 

[Mule]

I'm not too concerned with soemthing like that. The main thing I look for is the location of the lights, will they be accessible to the electrician for maintenance, arms reach... will there be a waterfall located above the lights requiring a electrician to get in the pool to maintain them...... bonding, is there two drains or a would it require the installation of a second anti-entrapment system and so on.

If a piece of rebar is touching the form......okay... not a problem for me.

Now you guys might change my mind after your comments

Ohhh good luck on your new job!!!

 

[brudgers]

Given that rebar in a swimming pool is adjacent to an environment filled with chloride ions, proper cover is pretty meaningful.

 

[Mule]

Okay... So what will the chloride ions do to the end of the rebar? It's got to get through the gunite first to affect it... wouldn't it?

 

[mtlogcabin]

Agree with brudgers. Your soils can have a negative effect on the rebar.

 

[Mule]

If I have the end of a 1/2 bar touching the side of the wall (dirt) how long will it take for that little 1/2" end of the rebar to actually rust/decay enough to do any damage to anything? 40... 50 years? Yeah it may be wrong technically but......

Is there a code for the structural design for swimming pools?

 

[Mark K]

The code provisions for concrete in the IBC apply the same as they do to other structural elements.

The condition noted is a code violation. Because the reinforcing is subject to significant corrosion I would suggest that this is not the place to let it slide.

 

[north star]

& & & &

Is there a code for the structural design for swimming pools?

Yes!"The ACI CCS-4( `08) is for Shotcrete type swimming pools....From Chapter 3, Section 3.3.1 –

Reinforcing steel, it states: “…At all times, reinforcement should be secure and not vibrate

during shooting.......Vibration of reinforcing steel will create cavities around the steel.

Reinforcing steel should be clean and free of set overspray and rebound......Reinforcing steel

must be placed so there is adequate coverage and clearance, as required by the contract

drawings.”

codeworks,

What do the structural plans on the pool call for?

& & & &

 

[mtlogcabin]

Common rebar is made of unfinished tempered steel, making it susceptible to rusting. Normally the concrete cover is able to provide a pH value higher than 12 avoiding the corrosion reaction. Too little concrete cover can compromise this guard through carbonation from the surface. Too much concrete cover can cause bigger crack widths which also compromises the local guard. As rust takes up greater volume than the steel from which it was formed, it causes severe internal pressure on the surrounding concrete, leading to cracking, spalling, and ultimately, structural failure. This is a particular problem where the concrete is exposed to salt water, as in bridges built in areas where salt is applied to roadways in winter, or in marine applications

It is not the failure of the rebar that is the main issue

 

[brudgers]

If I have the end of a 1/2 bar touching the side of the wall (dirt) how long will it take for that little 1/2" end of the rebar to actually rust/decay enough to do any damage to anything? 40... 50 years? Yeah it may be wrong technically but...... Is there a code for the structural design for swimming pools?

It will start corroding immediately. How long it takes will depend on several factors. But the swimming pool chemicals will speed it up if they come in contact.

 

[Mule]

& & & &

Yes!

"The ACI CCS-4( `08) is for Shotcrete type swimming pools....From Chapter 3, Section 3.3.1 –

Reinforcing steel, it states: “…At all times, reinforcement should be secure and not vibrate

during shooting.......Vibration of reinforcing steel will create cavities around the steel.

Reinforcing steel should be clean and free of set overspray and rebound......Reinforcing steel

must be placed so there is adequate coverage and clearance, as required by the contract

drawings.”

codeworks,

What do the structural plans on the pool call for?

& & & &

Don't have a copy of that document.

So who would actually enforce these regulations? Is it up to the pool contractor to comply with the requirements OR is it the duty of the inspector? How many inspectors have this document????? I bet not many!

Would I write this up....? Probably! Could I site the section of the code that it violates...nope? I would write it up only because I know that in the I-Codes there are specifications for clearances for rebar. Was I aware of the ACI CCS-4's specifications? Nope!

Just saying... Is it code... Yes because you guys have proven it to me. Would I have heartburn if I've missed one or two? Nope!

 

[Mark K]

Suggest that ACI CCS-4 is not a standard and more importantly it is not referenced from the IBC. Thus ACI CCS-4 has no other role than it provides some information of what should be done. You cannot enforce it. For those who have a copy of ACI CCS-4 I believe that you will find a statement on the first page that states that the document is not wirtten in enforcable code language and should not be used to specify the work.

It is the responsibility of the Owner to comply with the adopted regulations. In California if there is no design professional involved the contractor licensing board expects the contractor to comply with the regulations. If there is a design professional specifying what to do the contractor’s responsibility is to comply with the approved construction documents.

The building department is not responsible for compliance. Their responsibility is to monitor the work and enforce the adopted regulations.

When addressing this issue of concrete cover for swimming pools you will find all the requirements you need in IBC Section 1913 and ACI 318 which is referenced by the IBC.

 

[Mule]

I thought the IBC was for commercial? Would the IBC regulate a private residential swimming pool?

 

[fatboy]

Haver to agree with brudgers on this, pools are a very corrosive environment, and I don't think I would depend on the pool plaster finish to give protection from the rebar.

 

[Mule]

Oh... I agree with you guys but what section of the code would you use to require compliance?

 

[KZQuixote]

Gunite? Side wall form? I'm thinking that the bar is running into the outside form where it won't be subject to the pool chemicals, as much. Gunite is more porous than regular concrete anyway so I doubt that protection from corrosion is as critical here. My thought is that it's way more important that the steel be properly positioned in the "pour" than the paths for corrosion from 4 or 5 bar ends touching the form will cause.

Now, if the problem is on the water side, it's unacceptable as the rusting steel will bleed through the plaster and eventually cause it to spall.

Bill

 

[fatboy]

I would consider a swimming pool to be the equal of a foundation/retaing wall so I would cite this if asked to support it.

R404.1.2.3.7.4 Support and cover.

Reinforcement shall be secured in the proper location in the forms with tie wire or other bar support system to prevent displacement during the concrete placement operation. Steel reinforcement in concrete cast against the earth shall have a minimum cover of 3 inches (75 mm). Minimum cover for reinforcement in concrete cast in removable forms that will be exposed to the earth or weather shall be 11/2inches (38 mm) for No. 5 bars and smaller, and 2 inches (50 mm) for No. 6 bars and larger. For concrete cast in removable forms that will not be exposed to the earth or weather, and for concrete cast in stay-in-place forms, minimum cover shall be 3/4 inch (19 mm). The minus tolerance for cover shall not exceed the smaller of one-third the required cover or 3/8 inch (10 mm).



​

 

[codeworks]

side wall form, yes, that's where the steel hit the form. no issues with interior shell in the shotcrete areas of the pool. we are trying real hard to get compliance, in an area where it's not been, for whatever reason. in that, if i see it as not to code, i'll mention it so that the bigger stuff is easier to get corrected as well.

 

[Big Mac]

I just reviewed and rejected a swimming pool because the engineer had not even reviewed the soil report for the project to see if there were issues with heavy wet soils or buoyancy issues. In addition, there was no consideration of accessibiltiy, although that would not be an issue for a private residence. Do you permit the installation of an in-ground pool without a soils report?

I know of more than one instance here where a pool lifted entirely out of the ground and dumped 20,000 gallons of water down the hill. There were obviuously very unhapppy neighbors.

 

[TimNY]

The question remains as to where the authority originates from.

We require a plan and a section through indicating locations of reinforcing and inlets/returns.

Inspection is limited to the pool matching the plans. The plans never indicate the reinforcing anywhere except the middle third of the wall. We cite not in accordance with approved plans.

 

[Mark K]

Swimming pools can exist in a variety of occupancies. It seems clear that the IRC does not do a good job of regulating swimming pools thus would suggest that we follow presidence and refer to the more general IBC which still has provisions for residential occupancies. If there was a 4 story residential structure with a pool you would look naturally to the IBC.

When a swimming pool pops up it suggests that there are drainage issues and that the pool was not entirely full. If the pool was full it could fail because of erosion or slope failure but there would not be enought bouyancy to lift the pool up. I do not see how a full pool could pop up.

It is always appropriate to require consideration of impact of the pool on the slope and the impact of grading. One way to address the bouyancy concern would be to require that pool not be emptied if the ground water height was above a certain level.

 

[ICE]

I have seen three pools that floated. One was an Olympic size pool at a hotel in Daytona Beach Fl. The others were here in Ca. All three were empty. One of the Ca. pools was odd in that it was located on a hillside lot where one wouldn't expect a high water table.

 

[Dawgbark]

Swimming pools can exist in a variety of occupancies. It seems clear that the IRC does not do a good job of regulating swimming pools thus would suggest that we follow presidence and refer to the more general IBC which still has provisions for residential occupancies. If there was a 4 story residential structure with a pool you would look naturally to the IBC.When a swimming pool pops up it suggests that there are drainage issues and that the pool was not entirely full. If the pool was full it could fail because of erosion or slope failure but there would not be enought bouyancy to lift the pool up. I do not see how a full pool could pop up.

It is always appropriate to require consideration of impact of the pool on the slope and the impact of grading. One way to address the bouyancy concern would be to require that pool not be emptied if the ground water height was above a certain level.

Hydrostatic valve installed in the bottom drain/recirculation piping area will stop the boat from floating.