• Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades

Recent fires stir concerns about adequacy of state's fire sprinkler requirements

B

beach

Gold Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
853
Location
The SoCal Beach
..................................

Recent fires stir concerns about adequacy of state's fire sprinkler requirements
bu.png
Questions are being raised about the adequacy of the state's fire sprinkler requirements following the burning of a Redwood City apartment building last week that lacked that key piece of safety equipment. Like tens of thousands of Bay Area apartment buildings, the 73-unit Terrace Apartments complex, built in 1963, was not required to have sprinklers. A nearly identical fire at a 1960s-era building blocks away, also without sprinklers, killed a man in July and sent 18 people to hospitals. Even though the state in 1989 mandated fire sprinklers in new apartments, and despite the overwhelming consensus among firefighters that sprinklers save lives and property, state law does not require them to be retrofitted in older structures, where millions of Californians live. Why? "There is a perception out there that these things are prohibitively expensive," said Craig Oliver, president of California Building Officials, a statewide organization. "I admit they are not real cheap, but what value do you put on people's lives?" The head of a state apartment owners group bluntly agreed that landlords' reluctance to bear the cost is the reason that most older apartment buildings haven't been retrofitted with sprinklers. "Show me the money," said Dan Faller, president of the Apartment Owners Association of California, Inc., which represents more than 20,000 owners. "We always go back to who is going to pay for it. If they're going to pass a law like that, where's the money?" He said tenants who want fire sprinklers don't "have to rent that apartment if it doesn't have the amenities they want."

MERCURYNEWS.COM
Click to expand...
 
Value put on peoples lives. Do the residents have an extra few hundred a month for increased rent?

Cost of retrofitting sprinklers in older existing apartment buildings in California that will also trigger the need for lead and asbestos abatement. I would suspect would end up costing $5000-10000 per unit about $2500-3500 for the sprinkler work and at least that much more for removal and replacement of finishes for access. The rent increase to cover this would spell the end of affordable housing. The affected buildings would either be renovated and upscaled or marginal buildings would be abandoned adding to the homeless rolls.
 
"I admit they are not real cheap, but what value do you put on people's lives?"

There's a number. One of the worst point of arguments ever devised.

Brent
 
MASSDRIVER said:
"I admit they are not real cheap, but what value do you put on people's lives?" There's a number. One of the worst point of arguments ever devised.

Brent
Click to expand...
In Canada, last I heard it was 3 million dollars per life saved. If you're looking at billions of dollars in retrofits to save a handful of lives I don't know if anyone but the people who lost a loved one would think that's a good investment. My question is that if sprinklers are so important why are renters not flocking to the buildings that have retrofitted sprinklers? Ultimately this is a justifiable emotional reaction that has no practical reason behind it. The pain and outrage will fade until the next time this happens.
 
The police are not there to protect the individual and building and fire codes are not written to protect the individual.

So the question is not what is one live worth. The question should be how many lost lives are acceptable before something should be done

T
 
It is not just about sprinklers

Locking caps on freon lines to keep the huffers from huffing freon out of an AC unit, Is that really a building code issue

I am sure I can find more "emotionally" driven code sections when I have time to look
 
MT I agree! The cap thing is not a building code issue. But to have the lock to perhaps prevent the huffers small issue. There are many issues that find there way into codes that stem from emotion driven code changes.
 
Don't know how much one life is worth but I know I will give everything I own to save mime of one of my family members from death but alas we all have the promise of death
 
jwelectric said:
Don't know how much one life is worth but I know I will give everything I own to save mime of one of my family members from death but alas we all have the promise of death
Click to expand...
You have unlocked the secret.

Brent.
 
mark handler said:
If you don't touch it you do not need abatment
Click to expand...
Clearly Frank is saying that the process of installing the sprinklers will cause the need for some demolition, patch, and repair. So some amount of testing and abatement may be required, adding to the cost. That is no BS.

But I would not require sprinklers on existing buildings outright. Some jurisdictions have ordinances that they must be added when spending a certain amount of money on remodeling, but that is kind of harsh too.
 
Yes I have built things....

And drilling holes, for pipes, in ceilings, maybe containing Asbestos, does not trigger abatement
 
mark handler said:
Yes I have built things....And drilling holes, for pipes, in ceilings, maybe containing Asbestos, does not trigger abatement
Click to expand...
But standing on things that potentially break or fracture, or disturbing surfaces that contain lead or asbestos, or dropping the pipes you are drilling the holes for, on and on and on.

It happens. A perfectly benign job can rear it's ugly head. And does.

That's why when you threw the BS flag at Frank, it makes me question your actual experience at building. I mean doing it, not looking at it from a job shack.

It is the VERY reason practically any publicly funded endeavor goes over budget 230% of the time.

There is the dirtiest of all foul words at work; "Just".

"Just drill those holes, and don't disturb anything".

Brent.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top