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Restroom = Occupiable Space???

M

Mech

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Location
Eastern PA
2009 IMC

Per the mechanical code's definition of occupiable space, is a restroom occupiable space?

OCCUPIABLE SPACE. An enclosed space intended for human activities, excluding those spaces intended primarily for other purposes, such as storage rooms and equipment rooms, that are only intended to be occupied occasionally and for short periods of time.

Thanks!
 
Mech said:
2009 IMCPer the mechanical code's definition of occupiable space, is a restroom occupiable space?

OCCUPIABLE SPACE. An enclosed space intended for human activities, excluding those spaces intended primarily for other purposes, such as storage rooms and equipment rooms, that are only intended to be occupied occasionally and for short periods of time.

Thanks!
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I would say no.
 
I would disagree and say yes. A storage or equipment room will usually be occupied infrequently, possibly not being entered for several days, and the primary purpose of these spaces is for things to be in. A restroom will usually be used frequently throughout a day, and the primary purpose of a restroom definitely involves human activities. Also, restrooms are required to have ventilation in the ventilation tables in chapter 4 of the IMC. Storerooms and equipment rooms are not.
 
IBC definition: A little different,

OCCUPIABLE SPACE. A room or enclosed space designed for human occupancy in which individuals congregate for amusement, educational or similar purposes or in which occupants are engaged at labor, and which is equipped with means of egress and light and ventilation facilities meeting the requirements of this code.

I vote not occupiable, based on the IBC comentary, i regards to: toilet rooms, mechanical rooms and closets!

pc1
 
The only 2 places in the IMC that I am aware of that the new term "occupiable space" is used is in 403.2 Outdoor air required. The minimum outdoor airflow rate shall be determined in accordance with section 403.3. Ventilation supply systems shall be designed to deliver the required rate of outdoor airflow to the breathing zone within each "occupiable space".

The second location is 403.3.1.1 Breathing zone outdoor airflow. The outdoor airflow rate required in the breathing zone (Vbz) of the "occupiable space" in a zone shall be determined in accordance with equation 4-1 (Rp) people outdoor air rate: the outdoor airflow rate required per person from table 403.3

(Ra) Area outdoor air rate: the outdoor airflow rate required per unit area from table 403.3

Looking at table 403.3 under bathrooms the (Ra) and (Rp) are -0-
 
I hope it is an occupiable space and I do labor in it!!!

How about these mega seater bathrooms????
 
100% outside air is supplied to the space just to be exhausted, there are no heaters in the room, and the restrooms do not have any exterior walls.

Here is the ultimate goal of this thread: Can 30 degree air be used as make up air (intermittently when the restroom is used) as far as the mechanical code is concerned? If a restroom in not occupiable, can 30 degree air be supplied provided it does drop the temperature of the surrounding occupiable rooms? I am not proposing this situation nor would I. Someone else may.

IMC Section 309.1

Space-heating systems. Interior spaces intended for human occupancy shall be provided with active or passive space-heating systems capable of maintaining a minimum indoor temperature of 68°F (20°C) at a point 3 feet (914 mm) above floor on the design heating day. The installation of portable space heaters shall not be used to achieve compliance with this section.
 
let me think about this, if i'm not occupying the restroom when i'm actually on the throne, who is ? some of this stuff makes no sense whatsoever
 
Mech said:
100% outside air is supplied to the space just to be exhausted, there are no heaters in the room, and the restrooms do not have any exterior walls.Here is the ultimate goal of this thread: Can 30 degree air be used as make up air (intermittently when the restroom is used) as far as the mechanical code is concerned? If a restroom in not occupiable, can 30 degree air be supplied provided it does drop the temperature of the surrounding occupiable rooms? I am not proposing this situation nor would I. Someone else may.

IMC Section 309.1

Space-heating systems. Interior spaces intended for human occupancy shall be provided with active or passive space-heating systems capable of maintaining a minimum indoor temperature of 68°F (20°C) at a point 3 feet (914 mm) above floor on the design heating day. The installation of portable space heaters shall not be used to achieve compliance with this section.
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I would think the air would need to be tempered in some way to prevent plumbing from freezing.
 
Gregg Harris said:
I would think the air would need to be tempered in some way to prevent plumbing from freezing.
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It is tempered - up from around 0. Maybe if we add some heat tracing???
 
I've seen many bathroom doors that have a little tiny sign near the lock that says occupied when it's occupied.
 
Mech said:
100% outside air is supplied to the space just to be exhausted, there are no heaters in the room, and the restrooms do not have any exterior walls.Here is the ultimate goal of this thread: Can 30 degree air be used as make up air (intermittently when the restroom is used) as far as the mechanical code is concerned? If a restroom in not occupiable, can 30 degree air be supplied provided it does drop the temperature of the surrounding occupiable rooms? I am not proposing this situation nor would I. Someone else may.

IMC Section 309.1

Space-heating systems. Interior spaces intended for human occupancy shall be provided with active or passive space-heating systems capable of maintaining a minimum indoor temperature of 68°F (20°C) at a point 3 feet (914 mm) above floor on the design heating day. The installation of portable space heaters shall not be used to achieve compliance with this section.
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Don't know how the IMC speaks to this but that is exactly the setup we have with smoking allowed in restaurants to provide separate permanent space heaters and natural ventilation in the rest rooms.

What about restrooms in restaurants? Do they have to be smoke free?



Yes. The law prohibits smoking in all restrooms in a restaurant.



Can the restrooms be located adjacent to or in the smoking area of a restaurant? If so, does the owner have to provide a “smoke-free path” from the non-smoking area to the restrooms?



Yes, the restrooms can be located adjacent to or in the smoking area of a restaurant but smoking in the restrooms is prohibited. The smoking area must be physically separated from the restrooms and must be vented separately from the restrooms. However, the law does not require a smoke-free path from the non-smoking area of a restaurant to the restrooms so a patron from the non-smoking area of the restaurant may have to travel through the smoking area to get to the restrooms. Restaurant owners and proprietors are encouraged to consider placing restrooms in non-smoking areas or creating smoke-free paths from the non-smoking area to the restrooms.

Restaurants and smoking in Virginia FAQS

Francis
 
I vote not occupiable based upon the definition in the 2009 IBC. Also, according to

Section 201.3 (also, in the 2009 IBC), ..201.3 = Terms defined in other codes.

Where terms are not defined in this code and are defined in the International Fuel

Gas Code, International Fire Code, International Mechanical Code or International

Plumbing Code, such terms shall have the meanings ascribed to them as in those

codes.

By default, the IBC provides the definition in which to call a restroom occupiable

or not, and not the IMC!

.
 
globe trekker said:
Also, according toSection 201.3 (also, in the 2009 IBC), ..201.3 = Terms defined in other codes.

Where terms are not defined in this code and are defined in the International Fuel

Gas Code, International Fire Code, International Mechanical Code or International

Plumbing Code, such terms shall have the meanings ascribed to them as in those

codes.

By default, the IBC provides the definition in which to call a restroom occupiable

or not, and not the IMC!
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Both the IBC and the IMC have definitions for occupiable space. The problem is they are different.

I would think the Mechanical Code's definition trumps the Building Code's definition in regard to applying the Mechanical Code
 
I would think the Mechanical Code's definition trumps the Building Code's definition in regard toapplying the Mechanical Code
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The IBC defines the use of a space/room/area. Once that is accomplished, then the

other codes apply in how to construct that space/room/area, or at least, that is how

I have been taught.

If a definition were not available in the IBC, then the other code definitions would

apply.

.
 
Great discussion but I'm temped to ask what differance does it make. What does it have to do with? Why is it important, How did it come up, "Where's the beef"
 
rleibowitz said:
Great discussion but I'm temped to ask what differance does it make. What does it have to do with? Why is it important, How did it come up, "Where's the beef"
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Agreed. It sounds like you should be looking at the intent of the code provision rather than mincing words.
 
Can 30 degree air be used as make up air (intermittently when the restroom is used) as far as the mechanical code is concerned? If a restroom in not occupiable, can 30 degree air be supplied provided it does drop the temperature of the surrounding occupiable rooms?
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Here are the minimum 10 characters required so the website will allow this posting.
 
Mech said:
Here are the minimum 10 characters required so the website will allow this posting.
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Start with 403.4 Exhaust ventilation. The bathrooms require exhaust, interment or continuous according to 406.3 based on fixtures.
 
350 cfm exhaust

350 cfm dedicated supply

Once the outside temps drop too low, the electric resistance duct heater will not be able to keep the air warm.
 
309.1 is a requirement for human occupancy not human activities.

I would defer to the IBC that a rest room is not intended for "human occupancy" and agree heated make up air is not required.
 
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