Roof access doors on high rise- double keyed locks

[tgregory]

Hi,

I'm new here- I searched for roof doors but didn't pull this up, so here goes:

On a high rise (14 story) building, there is a door that goes from the stairwell up to the roof. I assumed that a storeroom lock with the key side on the stairwell side would be sufficient. To my surprise, there is a big concern of someone getting onto the roof and then having free access to the entire building.

My question is- can I use a double keyed lock on this door that would require a key from either side? My thought process here is that if someone has the key to get onto the roof, then they should still have the key to get back into the building (unless they throw it off the roof). I don't know of a code section that explicitly allows or denies this, so I'm assuming that it's up to the AHJ.

Another little twist to the question: would the lock be required to be fail safe electrified? I don't know why somebody would run UP the stairs onto the roof in an emergency, but I might as well ask the question while I've got you reading

Thank you for any insight!

 

[cda]

Welcome

How did you find us

Do you know if there is a fire standpipe connection actually on the roof?

My opinion

It is not an exit so lock away

Stay tune for other answers, there was a similar question recently will try to find it

 

[cda]

http://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/commercial-fire-codes/11986-high-rise-condo-roof-access-blocked.html

 

[tmurray]

What is in this building that people are making a 14 storey climb up the outside on the off chance that the roof is unlocked?

Generally this is not an issue as getting to and from the roof is not seen as an approved egress route. You should probably tell us what code your AHJ has adopted and where you are. Someone might be able to give you a better answer.

Also, have you asked the local building inspection department?

 

[LGreene]

Here's an article on roof access/egress: I Dig Hardware / I Hate Hardware » Decoded: Roof Access and Egress (November 2011)

I would use a double-cylinder deadbolt so someone going onto the roof to service mechanical equipment couldn't get locked out accidentally. But I have had some code officials require fail safe electrified locks. I don't see a basis for that in the IBC or NFPA 101, but there may be something local.

 

[tgregory]

WelcomeHow did you find us

Do you know if there is a fire standpipe connection actually on the roof?

My opinion

It is not an exit so lock away

Stay tune for other answers, there was a similar question recently will try to find it

I found this site through Lori's I Dig Hardware site! I'm not sure why it didn't email me replies though even though I set it to do so.

I do not know about a fire standpipe connection. Would that make a difference?

The building follows Michigan Building Code 2009, which is really identical to IBC 2009 as far as doors are concerned.

Honestly I do not know how people can get on the roof. The building is just residential and some commercial space- I don't think it is a target that people are trying to get into. Rather, they may get on the roof for other reasons and then have free access to the building if they happen to try. Apparently, "tagging" (graffiti) the top of a building will add to it's "WOW" factor I think that when you see this, the building must have had an unlocked roof access door (from the inside). The architect and owner are convinced that people are getting up there some other way (scaling or jumping from another rooftop).

I like the deadbolt suggestion Lori, that's even more fool proof. I have been asked if anything in the code (IBC or NFPA) allows this, but to my knowledge there is nothing that specifically addresses these doors.

I don't know who the final authority is on the matter yet. I'm not sure what to think about fail safe locks either. As someone mentioned in the other thread that was linked above, the normal way to exit a building is down, but there could be a special situation that would cause someone to go up (9/11/01).

 

[cda]

If there is a standpipe connection on the roof firefighters may want easy access to it

Suggest call both the building official and fire marshal for an answer

Let them know what you would like to do

""""""I found this site through Lori's I Dig Hardware site! I'm not sure why it didn't email me replies though even though I set it to do so."""

You need to watch who you hang out with

 

[LGreene]

I found this site through Lori's I Dig Hardware site! I'm not sure why it didn't email me replies though even though I set it to do so.I do not know about a fire standpipe connection. Would that make a difference?

The building follows Michigan Building Code 2009, which is really identical to IBC 2009 as far as doors are concerned.

Honestly I do not know how people can get on the roof. The building is just residential and some commercial space- I don't think it is a target that people are trying to get into. Rather, they may get on the roof for other reasons and then have free access to the building if they happen to try. Apparently, "tagging" (graffiti) the top of a building will add to it's "WOW" factor I think that when you see this, the building must have had an unlocked roof access door (from the inside). The architect and owner are convinced that people are getting up there some other way (scaling or jumping from another rooftop).

I like the deadbolt suggestion Lori, that's even more fool proof. I have been asked if anything in the code (IBC or NFPA) allows this, but to my knowledge there is nothing that specifically addresses these doors.

I don't know who the final authority is on the matter yet. I'm not sure what to think about fail safe locks either. As someone mentioned in the other thread that was linked above, the normal way to exit a building is down, but there could be a special situation that would cause someone to go up (9/11/01).

Woohoo! I sent us a new member!

If there's a standpipe on the roof, the fire department needs to be able to access it. I don't know how common that is...I've never run into a situation where we were required to allow roof access for that reason.

People do sometimes think they can go to the roof if there's a fire - thank you Hollywood. There was a fire a few years ago here in Boston, where a woman tried to go to the roof, found the door locked, and was rescued and resuscitated by firefighters. The media made a big deal about the roof door being locked, but I confirmed at that time that it's not a requirement for people to be able to get onto the roof. There's some information about that fire here: I Dig Hardware / I Hate Hardware » Boston Back Bay Fire

 

[LGreene]

""""""I found this site through Lori's I Dig Hardware site! I'm not sure why it didn't email me replies though even though I set it to do so."""You need to watch who you hang out with

Luckily, I know you mean that with love, Charles.

 

[tgregory]

Woohoo! I sent us a new member! If there's a standpipe on the roof, the fire department needs to be able to access it. I don't know how common that is...I've never run into a situation where we were required to allow roof access for that reason.

People do sometimes think they can go to the roof if there's a fire - thank you Hollywood. There was a fire a few years ago here in Boston, where a woman tried to go to the roof, found the door locked, and was rescued and resuscitated by firefighters. The media made a big deal about the roof door being locked, but I confirmed at that time that it's not a requirement for people to be able to get onto the roof. There's some information about that fire here: I Dig Hardware / I Hate Hardware » Boston Back Bay Fire

Makes sense! I saw you link to the article about access doors this time and it is helpful to help communiciate the implications to the architect. Thanks!