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Setting Off Alarms During Compliance Inspections?

Re: Setting Off Alarms During Compliance Inspections?

cheyer: No offense intended. I no so concerned with CYA as some! I try to do the best I can at all times. I believe we all want equipment to operate properly. :D

FM: understood as always!
 
Re: Setting Off Alarms During Compliance Inspections?

The IFC and NFPA 72 requirement that everything be pre-tested and provide a certificate to that effect makes the final inspection a lot easier.

The burden is on the FA contrator to make sure things work... we still check every device (including the smoke dampers.. since we've found several that OPEN when the smoke detector is set off; they are installed incorrectly).

It's not CYA as much as making sure the system really works.
 
Re: Setting Off Alarms During Compliance Inspections?

I always insist on witnessing the final acceptance tests of alarm & sprinkler installs & mods. The local contractors know this.

And still, you would be surprised at how often they fail!

So - do I really need to tell them to test it first, make sure everything is working, and THEN CALL ME to witness a PASSING TEST?!

Is it friday yet?
 
Re: Setting Off Alarms During Compliance Inspections?

Are we talking about initial testing after installation, yearly testing, or both??? From the OP, I assumed (uh oh...) it was yearly testing.........
 
Re: Setting Off Alarms During Compliance Inspections?

Beach

I take the ahj does annual inspections of buildings, and they were wanting to set off the fire alarm system to see if it gets to the monitoring comapny, and they dispactch the correct info back to the ahj dispatch.
 
Re: Setting Off Alarms During Compliance Inspections?

Thanks cda, that's what I thought.....some of the posts had me confused..... :oops:
 
Re: Setting Off Alarms During Compliance Inspections?

cda is correct.

We have construction inspectors that perform initial acceptance inspections of all systems in the jurisdiction, including alterations to existing systems.

We have compliance inspectors that perform fire code compliance inspections of existing buildings in the jurisdiction. This is done on a routine schedule which varies depending on the occupancy classification and presence of regulated materials or processes. Among the duties of compliance inspectors is to review for compliance with the fire code and all applicable NFPA standards for 3rd party testing.

The problem is that no amount of 3rd party testing of on-site devices will guarantee that a monitoring company will perform as required when it is a real alarm signal. Therefore, some juridictions initiate a fire alarm signal during compliance inspections to "test" the actions of the monitoring agency. This is something that falls outside the scope of routine 3rd party testing.
 
Re: Setting Off Alarms During Compliance Inspections?

In my humble opinion........then it’s time to inform the customer that they are not getting their monies worth from the 3rd party who does routine inspections of fire alarm systems and who does not verify compliance with Chapter 10 Performance Verification, Responsibilities and Methods of Testing. The jurisdiction’s purview is to assure compliance with NFPA 72 Chapter 10. This is not to say the fire inspector should actuate the initiating device but should verify the owner or his/her designated representative does under the supervision of the “qualified” fire inspector or other inspector. Remember that under the “Responsibilities” or “Inspection and Testing” sections of the code (02 and 07) for qualified personnel are the terms “but not limited to” and that can apply to the qualified fire official or 3rd party inspector.
 
Re: Setting Off Alarms During Compliance Inspections?

I meant that the 3rd parties responsiblity stops when they have confirmed receipt of the test signals with the monitoring agency. Is that not correct?
 
Re: Setting Off Alarms During Compliance Inspections?

I would think the responsibility for the 3rd party regarding the aspect in the receipt of signals from the off site facility would stop after verification of all signals were verified via the event history with the off site facility, system placement back on-line and report submittal to the client.
 
Re: Setting Off Alarms During Compliance Inspections?

Okay, but for their money's worth, the RP should have no expectation that the 3rd party is performing a quality control check of the monitoring agencies actions upon receipt of an "on-line" alarm signal, correct?
 
Re: Setting Off Alarms During Compliance Inspections?

This is easy for me in my area. No routine inspections and testing required. Only observe test in new buildings. No street adderess problems also because the post office never assigned any. Still use RD and box numbers. Hey mon, no problem.
 
Re: Setting Off Alarms During Compliance Inspections?

Okay, but for their money's worth, the RP should have no expectation that the 3rd party is performing a quality control check of the monitoring agencies actions upon receipt of an "on-line" alarm signal, correct?
Click to expand...
If the “RP” is the abbreviation for Registered Professional, they better expect that a 3rd party obligated to assure maintenance and testing provisions of the adopted by reference code are verifying testing in accordance with said code and as long as verification of signals (trouble, alarm and communication) is in the code those “shall” be verified.

There are many ways to verify this and additionally verify the operations of whoever redirects the notification to emergency forces without causing panic, interruptions or discomfort to customers. Basically, its like stated previously, it comes down to the comfort level of the AHJ and how thorough they enforce the code they adopt.
 
Re: Setting Off Alarms During Compliance Inspections?

I was referring to Responsible Party, meaning whomever is responsible for the building (owner or owner's agent). Sorry for the abbreviation - didn't mean to cause confusion.
 
Re: Setting Off Alarms During Compliance Inspections?

Wish I could but when a facility or their insurer requires such, we require all documentations associated to the facility’s listing and service provided in accordance with code. Many inspection officials call monitoring facilities “Central Stations” when in actuality they are really remote supervising station facilities and the requirements are much less for them.

How many really enforce the 2 to 4 hour response of a runner?
 
Re: Setting Off Alarms During Compliance Inspections?

FM-

+1

Exactly....."Central Station" does get thrown around a lot....while the majority of systems out there are Remote Supervising Stations.

I have heard conflicting info. regarding notification of trouble/supervisory signals with Remote Systems......some people say these signals do not require notification to the designated representative, as far as I can tell...NFPA 72 says they do...

Comments?
 
Re: Setting Off Alarms During Compliance Inspections?

I'm with you and comment that “some people” should come out from under the (CH 3-CH 2) 2 O or ether and are wrong in accordance with the 2002 Edition 8.4.4.2 or via the 2007 Edition 8.3.7.3 (1) and 8.3.7.4 (1)
 
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