• Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades

Short Term Rentals (less than 30 days) Such as Air BnB

RFDACM02 said:
Thanks for continually pointing out our ineptness. I posted here to see how others have addressed this issue, and have gotten some feedback that is actually constructive.
Just saying there should be laws in place already, enforce those.

If additional are needed adopt them
 
To me the city needs to decide what to do with them, and than look at what building or fire code issues to enforce
 
RFDACM02 said:
Thanks for continually pointing out our ineptness. I posted here to see how others have addressed this issue, and have gotten some feedback that is actually constructive.
I point out to my boss short comings,

Some times it helps
 
Even if R-1 by Exception "congregate Living" (where shared facilities exist - such as in a home) takes you out to R-3. So I sure hope my tourist community does not get wind of this. The tourist funding/marketing people who get their funds from bed taxes would love to hear about this activity. I agree that the homes who participate should be maybe inspected or forced to have basic elements in good working order (would be a good idea) but would not support additional retrofit to LSC or other "commercially applied" things like full sprinklers or rebuilding of stairs.

I do not ever want to be a zoning inspector
 
It's not so much that there is a problem with people staying at your house. The problem is that you are making some money from people staying at your house.

Now really,that's not even a problem, except governments, bureaucrats, and authorities HATE IT when you make some money, and they can't get their greasy little rat paws on some of it. Or most of it. Or all of it. Or even better, all of it plus some fees or fines. That's the finest kind.

That's the problem.

Brent.
 
MASSDRIVER said:
It's not so much that there is a problem with people staying at your house. The problem is that you are making some money from people staying at your house. Now really,that's not even a problem, except governments, bureaucrats, and authorities HATE IT when you make some money, and they can't get their greasy little rat paws on some of it. Or most of it. Or all of it. Or even better, all of it plus some fees or fines. That's the finest kind.

That's the problem.

Brent.
""""" As of February of 2015, the city had, in preceding months, sent out 240 letters demanding that Airbnb hosts pay taxes for renting out their rooms or homes. In addition, Passons told Mashable that the permits cost $5,000 to $10,000."""

"""Rachel Smith, who lists her home in San Diego's Burlingame neighborhood on home-sharing website Airbnb, is now being fined $25,000 for her failure to obtain a conditional use permit""

http://mashable.com/2015/08/12/san-diego-airbnb-fine/
 
cda said:
""""" As of February of 2015, the city had, in preceding months, sent out 240 letters demanding that Airbnb hosts pay taxes for renting out their rooms or homes. In addition, Passons told Mashable that the permits cost $5,000 to $10,000.""""""Rachel Smith, who lists her home in San Diego's Burlingame neighborhood on home-sharing website Airbnb, is now being fined $25,000 for her failure to obtain a conditional use permit""

http://mashable.com/2015/08/12/san-diego-airbnb-fine/
How did I know? How could I effing know? It's not even a challenge anymore.

Brent.
 
Ya there is a problem if my neighbors start renting rooms/houses by the day, week or month. There is a place for that and residential neighborhoods is not it. How about the businesses that own hotels and motels? It's similar to Uber. A necessary enterprise suffers from an onslaught of unregulated, backdoor competition that has an advantage. Is that fair?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
ICE said:
Ya there is a problem if my neighbors start renting rooms/houses by the day, week or month. There is a place for that and residential neighborhoods is not it. How about the businesses that own hotels and motels? It's similar to Uber. A necessary enterprise suffers from an onslaught of unregulated, backdoor competition that has an advantage. Is that fair?
It depends. Does the municipality have to use the nuclear option? Or maybe there is a reasonable solution and minor regulation process to keep it to a low roar.

I'm sure there is a way to make work. As for an enterprise suffering, I'm guessing most people will still use the standard system, especially if you're like me. I hate staying in peoples houses I know, much less a stranger's house. Something like this is already there through property management, but this is just a new, shorter term phenomenon that has yet to be worked out.

Besides, I'm sure your house looks like the one Edward Scissorhands lived in on the hill, so your ICE no-go radius is probably a few thousand feet at least.

Brent.
 
cda said:
""""" As of February of 2015, the city had, in preceding months, sent out 240 letters demanding that Airbnb hosts pay taxes for renting out their rooms or homes. In addition, Passons told Mashable that the permits cost $5,000 to $10,000.""""""Rachel Smith, who lists her home in San Diego's Burlingame neighborhood on home-sharing website Airbnb, is now being fined $25,000 for her failure to obtain a conditional use permit""

http://mashable.com/2015/08/12/san-diego-airbnb-fine/
When the government does stupid stuff like a $10,000 license fee or a $25,000 fine they look like idiots. The smart move would be to outlaw the activity. That's what they are trying to do without the balls to just do it. Everybody sees this as dishonest. I don't want a government that's populated by inept, dishonest dummies.
 
MASSDRIVER said:
It depends. Does the municipality have to use the nuclear option? Or maybe there is a reasonable solution and minor regulation process to keep it to a low roar.I'm sure there is a way to make work. As for an enterprise suffering, I'm guessing most people will still use the standard system, especially if you're like me. I hate staying in peoples houses I know, much less a stranger's house. Something like this is already there through property management, but this is just a new, shorter term phenomenon that has yet to be worked out.

Besides, I'm sure your house looks like the one Edward Scissorhands lived in on the hill, so your ICE no-go radius is probably a few thousand feet at least.

Brent.
I'll agree that staying in some stranger's house is not for me either. So there you have it; some weirdo is renting rooms to other weirdos.

As far as the unfair competition, this isn't likely to happen where we live but it is a real issue in a lot of popular tourist destinations like San Francisco. We'll talk about your weirdos. I get it now.
 
It's funny you mention the SF thing. I bid a job for someone ( the son of an unnamed keyboard inventor who is trying to live forever) and part of the work was installing a murphy bed and a very interesting hideaway kitchen, reason being they could transform her art studio into an airb&b space in about 5 min. Found out later through my covert sources they had their contractor friend do the job using my bid,because he had no idea how to price it.

I hate people.

Anyway, My first inclination is to not have a problem with the practice, especially in a place like San Francisco, because the hotel and motel industry is going mach 2 all the time anyway, and I would guess the impact on the official hospitality business is just about zero. Try and find a room on short notice and you will see what I mean.

Really, I don't have a strong opinion about it anyway, and I don't see a touristy inrush to Esparto anytime soon, so for me, for now, it's live and let live.

Brent.
 
MASSDRIVER said:
They aren't trying to figure out how to outlaw it. They are trying to make money off it.Brent.
That very well may be the case in some places, but I can tell you that's not our story. First, due to previous ordinances detailing in-home businesses, this is prohibited in our community. Our Code Office faced an onslaught of "illegally" used dwellings and sought policy to address this vs. just prohibit the use. In that research we found numerous regulation based in legally adopted code.

Our state and municipality have adopted the Life Safety Code, thus we have an obligation to follow the Life Safety Code, which is fairly clear in its intent with regard to transient accommodations, but does not extend those regulations into one and two family dwellings very clearly. Is this "on purpose" or by omission as it was an unforeseen industry. Either way, we have to set up a system that allows us to permit this industry, yet ensures the safety of the occupants. In this case, we're merely suggesting the dwelling meet the one and two family dwelling code, but alas, being an "old" northeastern community, many (most) hoes cannot meet the stair issues in the LSC. Our City Council is trying to legalize the use, but address the LSC and ensure that the playing field is somewhat level among those providing overnight accommodations. The latter being almost an afterthought or minimal concern. As the Fire Chief responsible for advising the Council on policy decisions with regard to the Life Safety Code, I'm trying ot find where some of the gray areas may have been defined or better addressed. I suspect the 2018 LSC will have to address this is some manner?
 
Once they collect financial compensation, the 1-2 single family dwelling becomes a boarding house and should meet minimum code/standards to protect all parties involved and the applicable jurisdictions where these occur. With respect to existing structures and egress limitations, reasonable alternatives could be explored with abilities for approvals creating a win/win for operators, transient occupants and jurisdictions.
 
Virginia permits 1 & 2 family dwellings to be boarding houses as prescribed for R-5 (amended out the sprinkler provisions :) )

310.3 Residential Group R-1. Residential occupancies containing sleeping units where the occupants are primarily transient in nature, including:
Boarding houses (transient) with more than 10 occupants Congregate living facilities (transient) with more than 10 occupants
Hotels (transient)
Motels (transient)
Exceptions:

1. Nonproprietor occupied bed and breakfast and other transient boarding facilities not more than three stories above grade plane in height with a maximum of 10 occupants total are permitted to be classified as either Group R-3 or R-5 provided that smoke alarms are installed in compliance with Section 907.2.11.2 for Group R-3 or Section R314 of the IRC for Group R-5.

2. Proprietor occupied bed and breakfast and other transient boarding facilities not more than three stories above grade plane in height, that are also occupied as the residence of the proprietor, with a maximum of five guest room sleeping units provided for the transient occupants are permitted to be classified as either Group R-3 or R-5 provided that smoke alarms are installed in compliance with Section 907.2.11.2 for Group R-3 or Section R314 of the IRC for Group R-5.
 
We just adopted an ordinance to address these. A $75.00 annual permit, annual fire inspection testing smoke and CO detectors, fire extinguishers up to date, egress windows are operational. Parties are a police matter. We are not a weekend resort area, typically people come for a week or more since it is not an easy place to get to
 
We continue to discuss it in our jurisdiction, considering a similar approach as mt..........just try to get a handle on them, attempt to keep them safe.

Reading this, where the heck has Brent, aka massdriver, been? His profile says 9 weeks, no show.................
 
We continue to discuss it in our jurisdiction, considering a similar approach as mt..........just try to get a handle on them, attempt to keep them safe.

Reading this, where the heck has Brent, aka massdriver, been? His profile says 9 weeks, no show.................

Arrested for strangling an incompetent inspector? LOL...o_O
 
Ok all, renters come from out of town and other countries, often unaware of local custom or decency. Naked sunbathing, parking on narrow streets as in the Hollywood Hills, ADA compliance dodged by claiming it doesn't apply to SF's but the SF is being used year-round as a BnB. Trash collection after partities and many other unintended results that upset the neighbors.
And, lost revenue to local governments from failure to license BnB's as a business.
 
Once they collect financial compensation, the 1-2 single family dwelling becomes a boarding house and should meet minimum code/standards to protect all parties involved and the applicable jurisdictions where these occur. With respect to existing structures and egress limitations, reasonable alternatives could be explored with abilities for approvals creating a win/win for operators, transient occupants and jurisdictions.
I'm glad to see someone here understands the fire and building codes.
 
Top