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Shower with Tile

e hilton said:
Possibly. Tell me what i missed. But grout is not waterproof, it is porous.
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Unless epoxy.

The point being made here is that regardless of the stud system, a standard tile installation will allow water to permeate to the wall assembly - the only question is "how much," and whether it will cause problems. On a wood-stud, interior wall, the old-school Wonderboard base will be more than fine. (I am not saying that's Code, but that it's a past practice that ought not to cause problems.)

I can easily see how tile on wonderboard on steel studs could cause a corrosion problem. I wouldn't do that without waterproofing or some other methodology in place (at the very least, vapour barrier between the board and the studs, but even then....)

Canadian Codes only require that tiles in a shower/bathtub are installed on a "moisture-resistant" backing. Technically, that's greenboard (which is now purple) but as a former tile guy, I can tell you that I won't be doing that when I finish the house this summer: the new waterproofing membranes are ah-maz-ing, and work like a hot damn.

Bottom line: y'all can't install bathroom tile over ordinary gyproc, whether by code or best practice.
 
Inspector Gadget said:
Unless epoxy.

The point being made here is that regardless of the stud system, a standard tile installation will allow water to permeate to the wall assembly - the only question is "how much," and whether it will cause problems. On a wood-stud, interior wall, the old-school Wonderboard base will be more than fine. (I am not saying that's Code, but that it's a past practice that ought not to cause problems.)

I can easily see how tile on wonderboard on steel studs could cause a corrosion problem. I wouldn't do that without waterproofing or some other methodology in place (at the very least, vapour barrier between the board and the studs, but even then....)

Canadian Codes only require that tiles in a shower/bathtub are installed on a "moisture-resistant" backing. Technically, that's greenboard (which is now purple) but as a former tile guy, I can tell you that I won't be doing that when I finish the house this summer: the new waterproofing membranes are ah-maz-ing, and work like a hot damn.

Bottom line: y'all can't install bathroom tile over ordinary gyproc, whether by code or best practice.
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I agree with your remarks especially
"I can easily see how tile on wonderboard on steel studs could cause a corrosion problem. "

Thank You for sharing your exp
 
Not sure how this thread went sideways, but just going to stay on point with the steel studs. As noted before grade does matter, but in areas of the country that have a high termite population, steel stud framing and construction has become a everyday practice of use, if not CMU.

The steel studs having nothing to do with the issue, its all about the water proofing system between the shower and the studs. I don't care if its wood or steel studs, if you can't stop the water from penetrating the wall system, you will have issues at some point.

In the world of construction what some believe are Best practices have nothing to do with minimum standards, and opinions are just like you know and everyone has one.
 
tbz said:
Not sure how this thread went sideways, but just going to stay on point with the steel studs. As noted before grade does matter, but in areas of the country that have a high termite population, steel stud framing and construction has become a everyday practice of use, if not CMU.

The steel studs having nothing to do with the issue, its all about the water proofing system between the shower and the studs. I don't care if its wood or steel studs, if you can't stop the water from penetrating the wall system, you will have issues at some point.

In the world of construction what some believe are Best practices have nothing to do with minimum standards, and opinions are just like you know and everyone has one.
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Well said! The framing is not relevant to the code requirement. Why do we get hung up on material types that have zero bearing on the code?
 
jar546 said:
Well said! The framing is not relevant to the code requirement. Why do we get hung up on material types that have zero bearing on the code?
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In this case, because the OP was concerned that his shower was built with metal studs.
 
tbz said:
Not sure how this thread went sideways, but just going to stay on point with the steel studs. As noted before grade does matter, but in areas of the country that have a high termite population, steel stud framing and construction has become a everyday practice of use, if not CMU.

The steel studs having nothing to do with the issue, its all about the water proofing system between the shower and the studs. I don't care if its wood or steel studs, if you can't stop the water from penetrating the wall system, you will have issues at some point.

In the world of construction what some believe are Best practices have nothing to do with minimum standards, and opinions are just like you know and everyone has one.
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tbz, I think you hit the subject right on the head!
We are there to see that the MINimum Code Requirements have been met. Not to insist that they use Best Practices, know anything about Building Science OR Provide a QUALITY ASSURANCE INSPECTION.

Problem is We should have a fundamental understanding of Building Science and understand that we shouldn't insulate unless you seal, OR seal unless you insulate to avoid the warm moist air from condensing on the bottom of roof decking ( for example) and Composting the Building from the inside out.
Then what we do is inquire and ask a question to clarify a grey, prescriptive requirement and Not make Pronouncements. Because we are the Reviewer, (Inspector and NOT THE DESIGN PROFESSIONAL IMHO

For Me that was where the Bright Double Line is. Cross the line and you could wind up in a Head On Collision
 
Genduct said:
Problem is We should have a fundamental understanding of Building Science and understand that we shouldn't insulate unless you seal, OR seal unless you insulate to avoid the warm moist air from condensing on the bottom of roof decking ( for example) and Composting the Building from the inside out.
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Related: had a build where part of the structure was a walk-in cooler. Nothing dramatic on the cooler side, but ... buddy wanted to use R22 Roxul in the wall.

I had to explain to buddy why I wanted to see vapour barrier on both the interior and exterior. Because, depending on the time of the year, the warm side could be exterior, or interior. I have heard of a situation where that wasn't done, and after seven summers, the building had rotted from the outside in, because of moist air condensing in the exterior of the wall cavity during our lovely, humid summers.

Buddy went with sprayfoam anyway, which was probably for the best in all regards.
 
e hilton said:
Possibly. Tell me what i missed. But grout is not waterproof, it is porous.
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"if you believe" is what you must have read over and cut out of your cut and paste effort.

OP, If there is no waterproofing system in place. tar paper, plastic sheeting, membrane or fluid applied membrane then there is no way it is to any code. I would suggest you visit the John Bridge Tile Forum and post questions and pics. They have significant experience with terrible installations in FL.
 
Inspector Gadget said:
Related: had a build where part of the structure was a walk-in cooler. Nothing dramatic on the cooler side, but ... buddy wanted to use R22 Roxul in the wall.

I had to explain to buddy why I wanted to see vapour barrier on both the interior and exterior. Because, depending on the time of the year, the warm side could be exterior, or interior. I have heard of a situation where that wasn't done, and after seven summers, the building had rotted from the outside in, because of moist air condensing in the exterior of the wall cavity during our lovely, humid summers.

Buddy went with sprayfoam anyway, which was probably for the best in all regards.
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Good Story
I don't know how you approach the situation with customers (not your buddy) but I tell them that I am CONCERNED then I say that I am either CONFUSED or Surprised and then Share my observation in the form of a question, then ask their opinion.

I always remember that I am the Reviewer and NOT the Design Professional. That way I can help without getting into the trap
 
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