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Site Plans

north star

north star

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Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
4,596
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Is there a formal definition of a Site Plan somewhere in the Codes ?
I am not talking about the definition of a Site, in Ch. 2 of the IBC,
rather a Site Plan.......Are there requirements by the RDP's to indicate
the existing utilities [ i.e. - water, elec., gas, Comm. lines, sewer ]
on submitted blueprints ?

Thanks for any input !

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Interesting question, standard of care dictates content based on minimum info sufficient to AHJ. No specific definition in code.
Are your plans to be: permitable, bidable or constructable? Is it a design/build?
 
[A] 107.2.6 Site plan.
The construction documents submitted with the application for permit shall be accompanied by a site plan showing to scale the size and location of new construction and existing structures on the site, distances from lot lines, the established street grades and the proposed finished grades and, as applicable, flood hazard areas, floodways, and design flood elevations; and it shall be drawn in accordance with an accurate boundary line survey. In the case of demolition, the site plan shall show construction to be demolished and the location and size of existing structures and construction that are to remain on the site or plot. The building official is authorized to waive or modify the requirement for a site plan where the application for permit is for alteration or repair or where otherwise warranted.
 
In our area required by development code,

With specifics from building, Fire, engineering
 
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Much Thanks for the input !

The submitted plans are for the renovation of some existing
buildings (14), and the RDP's have included a very minimal
amount of information regarding the existing utilities \
infrastructure around these buildings.

My intent is to have a much more detailed set of plans
submitted, with all of the existing utilities information provided.
Not sure that I will be able to obtain it, but I would like to be
able to cite a section or sections in the `15 I-Codes, ...the UFC's
or the NFPA Standards that require more than the boilerplate
minimums.

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I think just make a list of what you want, give it to them, and see if they give you what you want.

With out looking through the code, I am sure there is enough code to back up the request.

Plus some of the stuff may be in development code, or your public works standards, etc.
 
14 buildings

Maybe updated info?? For the record

Maybe enough renovation, need to check for enough fire hydrants/ fire flow, etc

Change of use ?
 
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Thanks all for the replies !

The request for the Site Plan to have more detailed information
on it is in regard to having the locations: of the various water
shut off valves, ...electrical lines, ...transformers, ...manholes,
and on and on and on.

The project plans will ultimately wind up with the Facility, Dept.
of Public Works........Hopefully, accurate "As Builts" will be
on file for future use........We already have a very difficult time in
having accurate Site Plans for all of the various facilities.......To
me, this seems like a very good time to have all of that info
provided on "hard copy & electronic" files........Maybe I'm wrong !


**Rick18071**,

No Parking Spaces were included in this project submittal either.
Typically, parking is not really an issue.

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What you are speaking of is Layering by trade for conflict determination. Do you have an underground utility finder service in your area?
Do you have an ALTA survey of your site, it would contain much of this as-built info.
 
north star said:
The project plans will ultimately wind up with the Facility, Dept.
of Public Works........Hopefully, accurate "As Builts" will be
on file for future use........We already have a very difficult time in
having accurate Site Plans for all of the various facilities.......
Click to expand...

It sort of sounds like you are trying to get an outside designer to remedy the Dept. of Public Works failure to keep good records. Which is fine, if that is something they are being paid to do. Otherwise, as a designer, I would push back unless there is actually some information needed that is relevant to the project. Assuming this is on a military base, the info that would ultimately be provided is likely to be exactly the same info as is in the Public Works files, and not any more accurate than that unless there is a requirement for field verification and topographic survey.
 
Private property and private utilities
Our public works department is not interested in being the record keeper of that information
 
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This project is the renovation of some antiquated military barracks and
their associated latrines.........The project is located on military property
and also has a Dept. of Public Works.

The project plans were submitted by "private sector" RDP's.......Again,
my intent is to have a much as accurate information on the project
plans as I can........It has been, and continues to be an uphill battle,
to get accurate, Code compliant plans submitted.......The military
has allowed the RDP's to submit very minimal submittals on the one
hand, and then wants the plans to be reviewed for compliancy on
the other.

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Am assuming that we are dealing with a privately owned building on the military property or the local jurisdiction would not be involved.

The primary purpose of the site plan is to show the work that will be performed by the contractor. While it is possible that other information will be necessary to show compliance of new work that information needs to be justified by specific code references.

If the military is playing the role of the utility then the plans would not normally show detailed information regarding the portions of the utility lines under the control of the utility.
 
I agree with Sleepy - I don't mind providing information that has to do with our project, but it gets very tiresome (and expensive for the owner) having to provide information simply because the jurisdiction doesn't have that information. If it is a reasonable request and readily obtainable for me to provide to you (something simple to go out an measure on a small, limited area) I'll do it, but if you're looking for all water valves, underground vaults, etc. on a very large site and our scope is only to upgrade a toilet room for accessibility on one or two buildings out of many, many more I will push back.
 
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Much thanks for all of the input !

The military is the property owner & the AHJ......They
hired "private sector" RDP's to design a complete
renovation of some existing barracks & latrines.......They
have asked me to review the submitted project plans.

In one set of project plans, two Site Plans were submitted.
One for the Plumbing and one for the Electrical......Both
Site Plans are very minimal in the data provided.......In
a separate project of renovating some barracks and latrines,
no Site Plans were submitted, not even as a geographical
proximity reference, ...nothing !

Again, I simply want to be thorough in asking for compliant
data to be submitted for review......It is NOT my intent to
overstep what the Codes & Standards require.

Thanks again, and keep the Comments coming !

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Since the federal government owns the buildings there is no adopted building code. An executive order charges the military with complying with certain building standards. This becomes a contractual issue.

Since the design professionals are under contract with the military this request for additional information should result in the design professionals making a request for additional scope of work and added fee to provide the requested information
 
I am thinking do a resonable/normal list.

Submit it.


See what happens.

You can always delete items, if there is a lot of push back.
 
If you really wanting to push hard, I imagine you could get the utilities on the plan if you "need" them for review of sizing/ capacity of the utilites for changes in loads....IE: more water, more sewer, more gas, etc...
 
Mark K said:
Since the federal government owns the buildings there is no adopted building code. An executive order charges the military with complying with certain building standards. This becomes a contractual issue.

Since the design professionals are under contract with the military this request for additional information should result in the design professionals making a request for additional scope of work and added fee to provide the requested information
Click to expand...
This would be the fairest approach. Asking for this information was likely outside of what the designer included in their quote. In my experience, the utility would be pushing for this information, also in my experience, they want the information, but not enough to pay someone to get it, which tells you haw much they want the information.
 
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