Here is a unique question. 2010 Building Code of NYS. I have a 78,000 sq ft cable restrained air inflated dome structure, used as an athletic facility for soccer, baseball, training, etc. I have an occupant load of 400 people. I have 5 exit doors evenly spaced around the perimeter of the facility. The owner has installed slide bolts on all of the required exit doors. His reasoning for this type of installation is that when the air presure is turned up in heavy wind conditions or snow loading conditions, the doors can be blown open by the increase in air pressure on the interior of the dome. WE have tried to remedy this situation numerous times with no cooperation from the Building owner. Does anyone know of a latching mechanism that would work in this type of an application. The owner stated that he has tried the three point locking mechanism, but the air pressure bent the vertical bars. Any thoughts. Thanks in advance. bob
-
Welcome to The Building Code Forum
Your premier resource for building code knowledge.
This forum remains free to the public thanks to the generous support of our Sawhorse Members and Corporate Sponsors. Their contributions help keep this community thriving and accessible.
Want enhanced access to expert discussions and exclusive features? Learn more about the benefits here.
Ready to upgrade? Log in and upgrade now.
slide bolts???
- Thread starter bptp32
- Start date
steveray
SAWHORSE
No surface bolts!.....if vertical rod panics don't work, good luck.....One more reason not to build a bubble.....
fatboy
Administrator
I'm with cda, panic hardware should work............
LGreene
REGISTERED
I agree - you need panic hardware to be code-compliant. I wonder if the air pressure is enough to actuate the touchpad of the panic bar though...somewhere between 10-15 pounds of force on the touchpad would release the latches.
Safecrackin Sam
Member
Somethings not right here.... Bending the rods would mean peoples ears would be blowing out...
Partially pressurized vestibules may be a solution. I would look at the devices in use and go with hurricane compliant devices if they are not already in place.
Securitech may have some hardware solutions.
Sounds like the owner is not conducive to finding a solution. I would verify any info he is providing so that you can move forward from a postive base.
Possibly visit some other like pressurized buildings and see how they have solved similiar situations?
The other issue I see is how will you get the doors to close under such positive pressure once the devices are functional?
Partially pressurized vestibules may be a solution. I would look at the devices in use and go with hurricane compliant devices if they are not already in place.
Securitech may have some hardware solutions.
Sounds like the owner is not conducive to finding a solution. I would verify any info he is providing so that you can move forward from a postive base.
Possibly visit some other like pressurized buildings and see how they have solved similiar situations?
The other issue I see is how will you get the doors to close under such positive pressure once the devices are functional?
Safecrackin Sam
Member
Hey CDA,
Yes and thank you.
Yes and thank you.
steveray
SAWHORSE
I don't remember the exact numbers Lori, but the bubbles are only pressurized to a few pounds....they are kinda wierd in that they typically use "balanced " doors if that is the correct term. The set in motion force is a little high and then once you get it going, it takes off out of your hands.....And of course, depends on exactly what pressure it is at...at the time of CO inspection...
LGreene said:
Emergency Balanced Exit Doors
In addition to having access points that are frequently used (revolving doors and personnel airlocks), building codes also require that each air structure have adequate emergency exiting capacity. To accomplish this, we include emergency exit doors as part of our package. The doors we use are specially designed center-balanced exit doors, which open smoothly while under air pressure (a regular door would swing open dangerously fast due to the air pressure acting upon it). Our doors also come with the appropriate emergency exit signs and lighting.
http://www.thefarleygroup.com/OURPRODUCTS/Components/tabid/111/Default.aspx
In addition to having access points that are frequently used (revolving doors and personnel airlocks), building codes also require that each air structure have adequate emergency exiting capacity. To accomplish this, we include emergency exit doors as part of our package. The doors we use are specially designed center-balanced exit doors, which open smoothly while under air pressure (a regular door would swing open dangerously fast due to the air pressure acting upon it). Our doors also come with the appropriate emergency exit signs and lighting.
http://www.thefarleygroup.com/OURPRODUCTS/Components/tabid/111/Default.aspx
steveray
SAWHORSE
Yep...turn up the heat and pressure because they do not stand up to snow load! They have their own ASCE standard that involves throwing a rope over it and flossing the snow off.......Do not miss the support provisions of 3102.8.3....Those things are like ring around the rosie...They all fall down, at least around here.
cda said:
Builder Bob
SAWHORSE
Don't think this would solve the problem as the problem just gets recessed into the structure... if the air pressure is equalized into the vestibule, the outside doors would be still be pushed open...cda said:
gentlemen; this is a A-4 occupancy. The main exit door is a revolving door with an airlock vestibule with double doors located along side the revolving doors for exiting purposes. We do have 5 other side hinged swinging doors that exit directly to the exterior. The 5 exit doors do have crash bars in place, but the owner states that they do not keep the doors closed during the use of the facility, so they added the slide bolts. The dome has blown down a few times and has had to be replaced twice. Thanks for the help
LGreene
REGISTERED
Unless the air pressure is actuating the touchpad of the panic device and releasing the latch (which I have never seen happen), then it sounds like the issue may be the closing force of the door closers, not the panic hardware. If the panic hardware is latched, it should keep the doors closed, but panic hardware is often dogged to hold the latch retracted, unlocking the doors and creating a push/pull function. Then it's up to the door closer to keep the door closed against the air pressure. The ADA standards and A117.1 don't state a limit on the closing force on an exterior door - it's up to the state or local jurisdiction. Here in Massachusetts the limit for force to open an exterior door is 15 pounds, which equates to 11-12ish pounds of closing force (I'm not sure what the limit is in NYS). If this is enough to keep the doors closed against the air pressure, it may be as simple as increasing the closing force of the closers. If 11-12 pounds isn't enough to keep the doors closed, we can talk about other options (there aren't many).bptp32 said:
Lori or anybody
Does the walmart looking hardware meet IBC for panic hardware???
If so maybe that is the solution
Not sure the brand but like this ;;;;
http://www.strongbar.com/images/prod/arm.png
Does the walmart looking hardware meet IBC for panic hardware???
If so maybe that is the solution
Not sure the brand but like this ;;;;
http://www.strongbar.com/images/prod/arm.png
The owner has stated that the soccer balls hit the crash bars and make the doors open and then the air pressure sucks the kid out of the building. The playing field comes within a foot of the doors and I can imagine that the doors could face a bit of wear and tear due to the players impacting the doors. The doors in place are the original doors that were installed in 1990 or around that time. It is probably time for the doors to be replaced, but the owenr has been very difficult to deal with. Obviously money is the driving force behind not making the necessary repairs. Our local Town Board does not want me to push this issue as the building is being funded with taxpayer monies and would not look good in the political arena for our Town Board. Not really my problem, but an issue none the less. Thanks to everyone for all the assistance. Bob
the total interior playing surface extends to within a foot or two of the sides of the dome. We are trying to work with the owner and have him remove the slide bolts and replace the doors one or two a year. I have already had the Rhode Island discussion with my Town Board. I actually walked a few of the Board memebrs through the building and tried to explain the operation and the "whys" of the fire shutters, how the bathroom fixture count is calculated, why the netting separating the fields becomes an issue in an emergency situation, why a revolving door does not meet exiting and accessibility requirements and how the Town may be able to be held somewhat liable now that we are aware of these situations. As most of you are fully aware, an uphill battle at best. Sisyphus I think his name was in Greek mythology.
LGreene
REGISTERED
Any product that is listed as panic hardware has to release with 15 pounds of force or less, so if the ball can get to the panic, then any panic hardware will release. Our indoor soccer field has nets. I don't know if you would consider it code-compliant, but there's a photo here: http://idighardware.com/2009/10/is-this-your-idea-of-fun/cda said: