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Smoke Alarms

Dennis

Dennis

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2012
Messages
745
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Hello, have a question on residential smoke alarms. Existing is a basement, first floor (living area) and a 2nd floor with bedrooms. All the smoke detectors in the existing part of the house are to code at the time and new battery ones were added in the bedrooms to comply with the new requirements.

Now an addition was added to the first floor, off to the left of the house, to add a master bedroom area. Smokes were added inside the bedroom and a carbon/smoke was added in the adjacent hall. Under the master bedroom is an 8' ceiling with a poured slab that does not communicate with the house other than being attached to it. Access is thru a door on the exterior of the house. The room has a central electric heating system, a water heater & panel box. The room is 8' and the duct work lowers the height by about 10".

We were told we needed a smoke alarm in this area because there was a poured slab. If this room didn't have a slab it would be a crawl space but they are calling it a basement with the slab. It isn't heated and there are no windows just a door. What say you.
 
Welcome. Smoke alarms are listed for a minimum ambient temperature. Typically around 50 degrees F. The answer may not be a simple as adding the amoke alarm since it could result in multiple false alarms.
 
It is not a crawl space untill you have to crawl......unless you are wicked tall, I think 7'2" is a basement regardless of what is on the floor....IMHO
 
Coug Dad said:
Welcome. Smoke alarms are listed for a minimum ambient temperature. Typically around 50 degrees F. The answer may not be a simple as adding the amoke alarm since it could result in multiple false alarms.
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The question is not an issue of adding or not- we added it but rather if it is required. Can someone show me a code for the definition of a basement. The smoke alarm states where temp get below 40F do not install. If I had a crawl space with an 8x10 slab would that need a SD. I just don't see how this is required.
 
steveray said:
It is not a crawl space untill you have to crawl......unless you are wicked tall, I think 7'2" is a basement regardless of what is on the floor....IMHO
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so if I have a space under my home that is 3' on one end and 8' on the other- unheated then I need a SD?
 
I guess what I am looking for is a code reference- if there is one-- for my own knowledge- I have had different inspectors see this very differently.
 
mark handler said:
Basement with the slab.Remove the concrete or add a smoke detector.

And welcome......
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That's too simple- does a slab define a basement?

David Henderson said:
What do the plans call it? Might have to go to the original set to find out.
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Not sure what the plans state but I can assure you that that was not the reasoning. I think it is called a utility room as all the utilities are in there.
 
BASEMENT. That portion of a building that is partly or

completely below grade (see “Story above grade”).
 
Dennis said:
The question is not an issue of adding or not- we added it but rather if it is required. Can someone show me a code for the definition of a basement. The smoke alarm states where temp get below 40F do not install. If I had a crawl space with an 8x10 slab would that need a SD. I just don't see how this is required.
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You may not consider it a basement, finished/heated or not. The current owner may not even consider it a basement, but in all likely hood, your local building department does, and most likely the next resident may see it that way too. I am not sure what regulations you have for the energy code, but the code does not distinguish any exceptions for basements outside the building thermal envelope, unless that adjacent story is less than one full story below the upper level. Chapter 2 has definitions for "Story" and "Story above grade" that might be helpful. Someone on here once told me the code is not always logical. Best of luck.
 
STORY ABOVE GRADE. Any story having its finished

floor surface entirely above grade, except that a basement shall

be considered as a story above gradewhere the finished surface

of the floor above the basement meets anyone of the following:

1. More than 6 feet (1829 mm) above grade plane.

2. More than 6 feet (1829 mm) above the finished ground

level for more than 50 percent of the total building pe-

rimeter.

3. More than 12 feet (3658 mm) above the finished ground

level at any point.
 
Dennis said:
I guess what I am looking for is a code reference- if there is one-- for my own knowledge- I have had different inspectors see this very differently.
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R303, R304, R305 & R313 are all applicable Code Sections in determining this as not a crawl space and requiring a smoke alarm.
 
Thanks -- I am an electrical contractor and I am having trouble understanding how this is any different than a crawl space with equipment. So according to the NEC we are suppose to install equipment according to the manufacturer installation. So here we have the building code requiring something that the manufacturer states not to install in areas where temps get below 40F. It seems like it is asking for trouble but if that definition is a building code definition of a basement then I guess it is a basement. This room is attached (but does not communicate) to the existing basement that has a smoke alarm so I guess this house has 2 basement.

Thanks all.
 
Let's see if I got this right. Since this room is connected to the house it needs a SD however if I put a door between the existing basement and this "so-called" basement then I don't need a SD since there already is one in the existing basement. I guess the NEC isn't the only code that doesn't make sense. :D
 
If you put the door in your covered. I was just wondering where you are that the basement would get below 40 degrees.
 
I think you'd better also read sections 314.3.1. and 314.4 . It appears that you need to interconnect and hardwire your alarms. A basement minimum ceiling height is 6'8" (section 305.1.1). If the ceiling height is lower than that, it can't be a "basement" so must be a crawl space.
 
rnapier said:
If you put the door in your covered. I was just wondering where you are that the basement would get below 40 degrees.
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It is unheated and when temps go down to the teens which is occasionally around here (NC) the temp will get cold. I have been in my unheated basement and I didn't measure it but it was darn cold back when we had some temps in the single digits. I don't know if the 40F means at any time or what.

rnapier said:
If you put the door in your covered.
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Yeah I know, then we see it as a utility room, which it is, but without the door changes it for some reason. seems a bit odd and yet we don't need one in an attic-- I guess because the fire burns up.
 
We would be having all your existing bedrooms upgraded as well to hardwired and interconnected.
 
Yankee said:
I think you'd better also read sections 314.3.1. and 314.4 . It appears that you need to interconnect and hardwire your alarms. A basement minimum ceiling height is 6'8" (section 305.1.1). If the ceiling height is lower than that, it can't be a "basement" so must be a crawl space.
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I think with the duct work it is probable around 7'. The whole concept of needing one there seems odd and yes I know it needs to be interconnected.
 
rktect 1 said:
We would be having all your existing bedrooms upgraded as well to hardwired and interconnected.
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NC does not require that. If the room wall and ceiling covering is not being touch then all you need is a battery unit.If that was required in this house we would have to destroy everything as there is no attic, rooms have high cathedral ceilings- heck the bedrooms upstairs have 20' high ceiling at the peak. Glad I don't live there- wow.
 
Dennis said:
NC does not require that. If the room wall and ceiling covering is not being touch then all you need is a battery unit.If that was required in this house we would have to destroy everything as there is no attic, rooms have high cathedral ceilings- heck the bedrooms upstairs have 20' high ceiling at the peak. Glad I don't live there- wow.
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the upgrade requirement has a clause that speaks to destructive installation
 
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