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smoke alarms

Mr. Inspector

Mr. Inspector

SAWHORSE
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
4,117
Location
Poconos/eastern PA
I have a project going and I sent this to my building inspector: Pleas coment. I already put smokes in bedrooms and outside bedrooms in hall.

You told me that I needed a smoke alarm in my living room but I am still con fused to where it needs to be. My living room has a 15’ high cathedral ceiling. I connected a 12-3 romex to the other smoke alarm connections and ran it to the front end of the existing living room and just left it hang loose for now. You told me to go by the manufactures directions.

The manufactures directions say “installed alarms on sloped, peaked or cathedral ceilings at or within 3’ of the highest point (measured horizontally). But it does not say an alarm must be installed on these ceilings.

It manufactures directions also specifies not to install an alarm

1. Where temperature may rise above 100 F degrees. My living room got over 90 all of last summer in the afternoons when the sun is coming through my windows and was some times over 100. And this is at 5’ high. I know it was over 100 near the peak at these times.

2. Within 4” of outside wall. This may bring the alarms to close to the ceiling fans.

3. Near fluorescent lights. I have florescent lights in the ceiling fan.

So maybe I should install the alarm only 8’ high in the living room?

You told me that an alarm should be installed on the highest ceiling on each floor. I can’t find this anywhere. Please refer me to where I can find this. The manufactures directions also says “ NFPA states “Smoke alarms in rooms with ceiling slopes greater than 1 foot in 8 feet horizontally shall be on the high side of the room””. Again it does not say alarms are required on slopped ceilings, it’s only requiring where they must be if you are installing an alarm on a sloped ceiling. If it was true that alarms are required on slooped ceilings that would mean if my living room ceiling was flat and 50’ high but my laundry room had a 8’ high slopped ceiling the alarm would be required to be in the laundry room.
 
NFPA 72-2010 Changes

A.29.8.3 Specific mounting locations of fire-warning equipment in unoccupied or architecturally unique areas (e.g., as in attics or in rooms with high ceilings) should be evaluated by a qualified professional.
 
Your honor will you please ask the attorney to rephrase the question

Not sure your question

Sounds like one is needed somewhere on the first floor

There are no bedrooms on the first floor?

Does this ahj have an admendment to the smoke alarm ???

Smoke alarms shall be installed in the following locations:

1. In each sleeping room.

2. Outside each separate sleeping area in the immediate vicinity of the bedrooms.

3. On each additional story of the dwelling, including basements and habitable attics but not including crawl spaces and uninhabitable attics. In dwellings or dwelling units with split levels and without an intervening door between the adjacent levels, a smoke alarm installed on the upper level shall suffice for the adjacent lower level provided that the lower level is less than one full story below the upper level.
 
My inspector is requiring me to install a smoke alarm in my living room because it is the highest ceiling on the first floor and also he says the manufactors directions say so. Does anyone else think I need too?

The bedrooms are also on the first floor and I already wired them and the hall between them for smokes.
 
Rick18071 said:
My inspector is requiring me to install a smoke alarm in my living room because it is the highest ceiling on the first floor and also he says the manufactors directions say so. Does anyone else think I need too?The bedrooms are also on the first floor and I already wired them and the hall between them for smokes.
Click to expand...
they more the likely also say you can mount them on a wall 4- 12 inches!!!

sounds like you meet the intent of the code section. Sounds like maybe talk nicely to his boss
 
SOUNDS LIKE HE IS WRONG TO ME.......There is nothing in my code that says you need one in a living room...or in X feet or a fireplace....or anything other than what CDA posted above...and I am sure that the manuf. inst. say something to the effect of...." when installed in rooms with high ceilngs.....or should be installed at highest ceiling on floor" I doubt they use a mandatory term that says what the inspector is asking for...but I could be wrong....
 
hat rick what is the brand and model number of the smoke alarms you are using??
 
2010 NYS Residential Code requires smoke alarms to be installed in accordnace with the code and the provisions of NFPA 72 for household alarm systems. The NFPA 72 may have more stringent requirements than the minmium stated in the Code book. That may be where the inspector is finding his/her information
 
This is where knowing who in that state is an expert that these guys will fall back to and abide by.

I think this might be the direction to go to next.

Contact the state Fire Marshal or Building Code enforcement agency.

It isn't unheard of AHJ's not knowing, understanding or applying these things correctly (sh dont tell anyone.)
 
NFPA 72

11.5.1 One- and Two-Family Dwelling Units.

11.5.1.1 Smoke Detection. Where required by applicable laws, codes, or standards for the specified occupancy, approved single- and multiple-station Smoke Alarms shall be installed as follows: (1) In all sleeping rooms. Exception: Smoke Alarms shall not be required in sleeping rooms in existing one- and two-family dwelling units. (2) Outside of each separate sleeping area, in immediate vicinity of the sleeping rooms. (3) On each level of the dwelling unit, including basements. Exception: In existing one- and two family dwelling units, approved Smoke Alarms powered by batteries are permitted.
 
Pennsylvania has an appeals process if you don't agree with a code official's decision. You may have to pay a fee for the appeal (more than likely) which includes a transcriptionist. Good luck.
 
PM me who your 3rd party is. I believe D.D. is the BCO of where you live. Just PM me and I may be able to help. It is possible that J.T. is doing the inspections through his 3rd party. I have already done some plan review for 18071 in the past.
 
The UBC required them when there was a change of ceiling height of 24" from the hallway outside the bedroom to the rest of the living space, maybe that's where he's coming from.
 
If there is a big difference between the living room ceiling height and the rest of the house, and the fire is in the living room, it can take a long time for the smoke to bank down enough to activate the alarms on the lower ceiling. He's right, but I'm not sure there is a code section to back up being right.
 
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