Solar: An Inconvenient Truth.

[ICE]

The First Chapter​

The solar industry was shot out of a cannon. It went from supplying pot farmers with clandestine electricity to the darling of California Governor Jerry Brown. No less than a “million solar roofs” was the goal. The government offered rebates. Rebate equals subsidy and that invites abuse. Entrepreneurs sprang up with their empty pockets open wide.

Homeowners lined up with their small pockets opened wide for the picking…. eager to get free money and go in debt for the next twenty years trading dollars on the electric bill.

It was the Wild West. Panel and racking manufactures came and went. The workmen were inexperienced. The outcomes were occasionally okay and occasionally bizarre, usually not something worth having.

The most important cog in the works is the salesman. If you have a roof you can have a rebate. That’s right, a rebate. Sell the rebate first and then close in for the kill. The roof might be shot, the roof might not see Sun, you might be days away from bankruptcy but are you willing to leave a rebate laying in the dust?

Momentum built …. players came from around the country. The money flowed freely. The players had an air of superiority. It was God’s work that they were doing. Stand back while we save Earth. Climate change became the cause to celebrate. When Hollywood started selling the Kool Aid it took off like a SpaceX BFR.


The solar industry outpaced the regulators by a wide margin. There was scant training and the code was behind the curve. Solar arrays were a compilation of stuff that came with the racking and other stuff that came from Ace Hardware. There was still no Standard for anything solar so I had to shoot from the hip. I wounded many and killed a few.

 

[Inspector Gadget]

The major issue is that people are not well educated on how solar works, and are even less educated on how much energy they use.


Our house runs on 2.2-2.4kw/hr per day.

 

[ICE]

The Second Chapter​

In the beginning jurisdictions could decide when and what was inspected. Our first inspection took place after the racking was completed and no panels were installed. A second inspection came after the project was completed. The type and number of corrections written exemplified the value of that first inspection. I don’t want to get ahead of myself but you should know that the state legislature took away one of the inspections. A foolish decision if there ever was one.

Looking at the timeline of government intervention one would think that the solar industry could thrive by now but that hasn’t happened. California is still propping up the industry with a mandate that every new dwelling is required to have solar installed. It looks like I got sidetracked here but actually this says plenty about the solar companies. They popped up like mushrooms. And like mushrooms, some are poisonous.

If this story seems a bit disjointed, my apology ... that’s sorta how my mind works.

I made it a point to interview workmen. I say men but they were mostly boys on the cusp of becoming men. They had a wide range of limited work history from fast food to shoe sales. They shared a sense of pride from having landed a real man’s occupation. The only prerequisite for employment was a valid driver’s license … in case the crew leader called in sick and they had to drive the company van.

Don’t think that I find fault with the installers. I saw myself in many of them. They were at the wrong place at the right time and now they install solar. The companies.. now they should have their feet held to fire.

Where was I? Oh ya, the installers. Mostly young men with no previous construction experience. On a roof with no safety gear or even safety training. There was a day when I arrived at a home when the crew was using a garden hose to cool down a kid that was clearly suffering heat stroke. He had become disoriented in an attic that was not an attic. He had crawled twenty feet into a space with 24” headroom between the ceiling and the roof. When he panicked, the other crew members ripped down a ceiling in a bedroom to retrieve him. Needless to say, the owner was less than impressed… but hey now, he was getting a huge rebate and would “never get another bill from Edison”.

I actually dealt with the company regarding that event.
I was told that the company rule is any attic space 20” or more will be entered as necessary. No regard to temperature or common sense applied. I wrote a violation slip that changed the rule to 30” and no more than ten feet in length; included was an arbitrary temperature limit. I had no authority to do that. A lack of authority seldom got in my way.

I came away from it thinking, Well people died in the building of Hoover Dam too. It’s not that they used those exact words… the exact words used got that across.

 

[Yikes]

Right now a lot of the remaining incentive programs are geared towards lower-income homeowners, who (in our area) live in some of the oldest homes around, with what would now be considered substandard framing sizes, super-tiny attic access holes, etc.
So those new installers are learning on some very difficult housing stock that already deviates from what they would expect.

A family friend (who works as a health consultant 100% via zoom) recently purchased a portable solar panel, size about 30" x 42". She has it connected to a battery storage system which powers her mom's CPAP machine and also to her home PC and modem. If/when power goes out (which happens more and more often in CA) she can continue to work uninterrupted.

 

[bill1952]

Let's separate solar and roofs. I'm a big proponent of solar, would never accept or recommend rooftop panels.

 

[mark handler]

Let's separate solar and roofs. I'm a big proponent of solar, would never accept or recommend rooftop panels.

No option in establish neighborhoods or densely populated areas.....

 

[bill1952]

No option in establish neighborhoods or densely populated areas.....

Understand that. Still think solar panels on residential roofs have major challenges that are not being met. (Fossil fuel and nuclear power plants are also not a good fit in established neighborhoods IMHO.)

 

[Yikes]

Understand that. Still think solar panels on residential roofs have major challenges that are not being met. (Fossil fuel and nuclear power plants are also not a good fit in established neighborhoods IMHO.)

Aside from the labor force issued mentioned earlier, what do you think are the challenges of residential roof solar PV?
And are these challenges unique to single-family / duplex, or are you saying it applies to multifamily as well? Existing roofs only, or both existing AND new construction?

 

[bill1952]

Aside from the labor force issued mentioned earlier, what do you think are the challenges of residential roof solar PV?
And are these challenges unique to single-family / duplex, or are you saying it applies to multifamily as well? Existing roofs only, or both existing AND new construction?

I just think more holes in the roof will lead to more leaks. For me a roof should have no penetrations or valleys, no crickets, nothing but a ridge. Anything is possible in theory, but more penetrations simply assures more leaks. All the black gunk in the world won't prevent it.

 

[ICE]

Chapter Three
​

In the ramp up of the solar industry the array was a crude affair. Lay-in lugs and solid #6 bare wire traipsed to and fro. Every module and each bit of racking was tethered to the next.

It took as long to achieve that as it did to erect the racking. The bare copper was in contact with the bare aluminum as if it was intentional. The advent of integrated bonding solved most of that problem… not all of it mind you, but most of it as there is still an opportunity to get it wrong.

I asked enough questions that had no answer that UL and ETL asked me to participate in the Standard Making Panel for UL2703. That is the standard for solar racking. The experience was an education.

The standard contains the criteria that an NRTL uses to evaluate and certify a product before is can be used in the USA. It is a blueprint of tests that are performed to ensure that the racking is safe and will perform as intended.

For example the racking is subjected to salt spray, extreme thermal swings, UV radiation etc. and a jolt of electricity…just not in that order. Nope, the jolt of electricity is a test of all the integrated connections that ensure a proper bond between the parts. One would rightly assume that the environmental conditions that the racking is subjected to would be prior to testing the connections… I mean, what do you think? You do all of that to see if the aluminum contraption degrades… you know, expands and contracts, corrodes etc. and then hit it with 5000 volts. But no, the environmental tests came after the jolt. When I asked how it is determined if the racking has a bad reaction to the environmental tests I was told. “Oh, you can see it.”

Well I could definitely see something.. I could smell it too.

 

[Yikes]

I just think more holes in the roof will lead to more leaks. For me a roof should have no penetrations or valleys, no crickets, nothing but a ridge. Anything is possible in theory, but more penetrations simply assures more leaks. All the black gunk in the world won't prevent it.

Maybe it's because I live in a mild climate that gets no snow or ice and has less average annual rainfall than the Serengeti, but to me the choice - between a leaky roof vs. no rooftop PV at all - is a false dichotomy, especially on new construction.

Heck, even apart from PV racks, we already have roof jacks, refrigerant line sets, security cameras and datacomm, tie-backs, equipment platforms and racks, conduits, etc. all over roofs, and through the years we've figured out how to avoid leaks. Yes, every one of those penetrations has the potential for problems, but as with everything else on a building, you develop best practices to mitigate as much risk as possible.

 

[bill1952]

Maybe it's because I live in a mild climate that gets no snow or ice and has less average annual rainfall than the Serengeti, but to me the choice - between a leaky roof vs. no rooftop PV at all - is a false dichotomy, especially on new construction.

Heck, even apart from PV racks, we already have roof jacks, refrigerant line sets, security cameras and datacomm, tie-backs, equipment platforms and racks, conduits, etc. all over roofs, and through the years we've figured out how to avoid leaks. Yes, every one of those penetrations has the potential for problems, but as with everything else on a building, you develop best practices to mitigate as much risk as possible.

None of that stuff on my roof. One flu and right now several inches of snow and growing. I still believe best practice is to eliminate or minimize roof penetrations.

 

[mark handler]

Understand that. Still think solar panels on residential roofs have major challenges that are not being met. (Fossil fuel and nuclear power plants are also not a good fit in established neighborhoods IMHO.)

What Challenges are not being met.
Just because there are Incompetent installers?
There are Incompetent installers in every trade. I yesterday rejected electrical, installed by a licensed electrician and plumbing installed by a licensed plumber....

 

[bill1952]

What Challenges are not being met.
Just because there are Incompetent installers?
There are Incompetent installers in every trade. I yesterday rejected electrical, installed by a licensed electrician and plumbing installed by a licensed plumber....

I find the consequences of roof leaks to be significantly more costly and hazardous than the consequences of most electrical and plumbing errors. And how much extra will it cost to tear off and reroof when it's time?

If you are prepared for the consequences and costs of adding solar to your roof, so be it. I'm not. Just no longer interested in having a roof leak or shortened roof life.

 

[Paul Sweet]

A lot of solar is being installed on older roofs. The homeowners will get a big surprise ($$$$!) when the array has to be dismantled in a few years to replace the shingles, then reinstalled.

 

[bill1952]

And do you think the roofers will reinstall it correctly?

 

[ICE]

And do you think the roofers will reinstall it correctly?

Several solar companies will R&R the solar for a small fee. They put that in the contract as a way to assuage the owners concerns. The small outfits don’t do that. Some roofers advertise that they are also a solar company. I have found the solar piled in the garage, piled on the roof, piled in the back yard. I’ve been told that as long as there’s no wire attached to the panels, they are harmless… modules sunny-side up. The night sun from a police helicopter can generate enough electron activity in a solar array to kill a firefighter.

There is a procedure that was developed by LA County Public Works B/S. I had nothing to do with it. It goes like this. Many pictures are to be taken as the solar comes apart. The original plans can be used to put the array back together. Lacking original plans means that new plans shall be created. Obviously a permit is required. To my knowledge, nobody has ever taken the pictures and seldom is a permit obtained.

Roofers installing solar is worse than solar crews installing solar. The older systems rely on lay-in lugs and a bonding jumper from each panel and the rails. The way it works out is that when the inspector arrives and the building isn’t on fire… the solar passes inspection. Come to think of it, that’s how the new installs happen too.

 

[ICE]

Fourth Chapter
​

As the solar snowball grew ever larger, it rolled right over the building department. The regulators were so far behind the industry that OSHA had not certified any NRTL to evaluate anything using the std. UL-2703. And no fatboy, that’s not a disease. For that matter. UL-2703 was still a work in progress. If you see how standards are created you wonder how anything ever gets done.

The county had to hire a phalanx of engineers to keep up with the plan checking. Inspectors were tossed to the wolves. There was barely any training so inspectors had to learn it on their own. Installation instructions didn’t have a lot of instruction… well there weren’t many racking manufactures and what there were went out of business after a short time. It was the same with the panels. Then came Solar City and Sun Power. They are big companies with big ideas.

I have been told that Solar City has a file on me. The company threatened to boycott my area. Then they bought ZEP Solar. Eliminating the rails was a game changer and suddenly their fortunes improved and the work was cleaner for sure.

The California legislature has a misguided desire to cover the State in solar panels. To that end there are rebates and the PUC mandates that the electric utilities purchase excess power at the same rate that they sell it. Not really a winning proposition for the power companies.

Early on the solar industry lobbied the lawmakers to be able to self certify their systems. They wanted to eliminate me. They succeeded in cutting me off at the knees. When we were told that we can do just one inspection we chose the final inspection. Recently the ability to check the plans prior to issuing a permit was removed. The County was suddenly saddled with a bloated Electrical Section.

The result is that the solar industry is now self certifying. On the surface it appears that the inspector performs a plan check and the inspection at the same time. The truth is that the inspector does not do either. So by default, the solar lobby has gotten what it wanted …. but wait a minute, the AHJ holds the liability…. That’s better than the industry hoped for. They have a cloak of respectability that the do not deserve.

The major players are smart people. I’m convinced that they have a vision of the future. They know what the end game looks like and they have started to stake their place in it. I wish they were forthcoming with the truth about the millions of panels that will hit the expiration date at pretty close to the same time. I bet that there’s rebates involved.

 

[MtnArch]

A lot of solar is being installed on older roofs. The homeowners will get a big surprise ($$$$!) when the array has to be dismantled in a few years to replace the shingles, then reinstalled.

My sister and her husband just experienced this. They had solar installed on their roof two years ago by a "reputable" solar contractor. They found out this winter that their 25-year-old comp roof was shot and had to be replaced. They called the solar company to have them dismantle (and then re-install) their arrays (roofer refused to do it) - only to find that they no longer do solar and won't even call them back. They had to hire a separate contractor to dismantle and re-install the array, all at a significant extra cost. I also warned them to make sure what their roofing contract says about leaks and who is responsible for them after the solar is reinstalled - including what their actual comp manufacturer's warranty says about penetrations.

 

[bill1952]

My sister and her husband just experienced this. They had solar installed on their roof two years ago by a "reputable" solar contractor. They found out this winter that their 25-year-old comp roof was shot and had to be replaced. They called the solar company to have them dismantle (and then re-install) their arrays (roofer refused to do it) - only to find that they no longer do solar and won't even call them back. They had to hire a separate contractor to dismantle and re-install the array, all at a significant extra cost. I also warned them to make sure what their roofing contract says about leaks and who is responsible for them after the solar is reinstalled - including what their actual comp manufacturer's warranty says about penetrations.

Do they still believe the solar panel install is a good idea for them?

 

[iOne]

None of that stuff on my roof. One flu and right now several inches of snow and growing. I still believe best practice is to eliminate or minimize roof penetrations.

I'm sorry you roof has the flu.

 

[iOne]

They found out this winter that their 25-year-old comp roof was shot and had to be replaced. They called the solar company to have them dismantle...

Sigh.
The reputable people here won't install on a roof that's not in good condition, usually <10 years old.

 

[Inspector Gadget]

I'm sorry you roof has the flu.

Yes. We're sorry your roof is under the weather.