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Solar

CA...WE would have to see the unlicensed person doing the work, and even then we can shoo them off the job, but they can/will come back after we leave and finish. We have no teeth in that area, it is Consumer Protection at the State level that handles that and I think there may be about 6 people for the whole State to enforce licensing...All I can care about is the work is being done to code. Until the license holders get together and complain enough to the State to drive a change (more money for more State inspectors or a requirement for the licensed person to be present for inspection) nothing will be any different.

"Another thing about SolarCity is that they've never seen a service panel that they didn't like."

Had them hook up to a sub panel with absolutely no grounding back to the main, and one installed directly over a sink...
 
That cslb link pertains to certified electricians working for the c-10, not a"b". If there is another section, please provide.

Brent
 
steveray said:
CA...WE would have to see the unlicensed person doing the work, and even then we can shoo them off the job, but they can/will come back after we leave and finish. We have no teeth in that area, it is Consumer Protection at the State level that handles that and I think there may be about 6 people for the whole State to enforce licensing...All I can care about is the work is being done to code. Until the license holders get together and complain enough to the State to drive a change (more money for more State inspectors or a requirement for the licensed person to be present for inspection) nothing will be any different."Another thing about SolarCity is that they've never seen a service panel that they didn't like."

Had them hook up to a sub panel with absolutely no grounding back to the main, and one installed directly over a sink...
Click to expand...
The point is that Solar City is the biggest solar contractor in the country and they are running around in some cases not even getting permits, and I think in all cases not employing licensed contractors to perform the work. I don't know about other states but in California the building department is required to obtain evidence of Workers' compensation insurance before issuing a permit (homeowners and contractors can exempt themselves if they swear under penalty of perjury that they do not employ anyone or only employ licensed contractors), Solar City gets around these requirements by either not getting permits or employing unlicensed contractors that can't get permits.

I realize that you have to catch them in the act, but from what I saw next door the average 1,500 square foot house takes between 5 and 7 hours to do. What's the solution to stop this fraud? Electrical is life safety, unlike many other things you enforce these days like ADA, low flow faucets, air sealing, etc. BTW, billions in tax payer money is going to support this, as well as increased rates for others (PG&E has a proposal in now to increase rates to cover their losses due to solar, utilities are poles and wires the electrons are free, PG&E is a delivery service not even equipped to store and over 90% of solar (not consumed by the customer) is wasted.

\ said:
That cslb link pertains to certified electricians working for the c-10, not a"b". If there is another section, please provide.Brent
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I realize that and it's an error in the say the statute was drafted, if you notice the CSLB notice I provided is a republication becasue contractors weren't getting the message, I've talked to them about this saying it doesn't make any sense to force electrical contractors to hire certified electricians then let general contractors hire uncertified electricians, bad contractors will just stop subcontracting electrical to licensed electricians and pick up their "electricians" at the Home Depot parking lot like the solar contractors are now apparently doing. They say they are working on getting the language changed to apply to all contractors.
 
And that was my point.

I froze a cslb rep in thier tracks with that. Of course I was told that was not the intent. Cry me a river then.

Nobody, and mean nobody, is going to hire an electrician at $200 an hour to wire up a small remodel. Plus it makes no sense. Conversely, I'm ok getting my own certification provided I'm allowed to just take a test and pass it, rather than adopt a new career just to obtain an electrical certificate of liability, which is all it is.

Brent.
 
Solar is harming the poor, for those who care about them, rich people could care less what their electricity bill is.



\ said:

Despite the

uncertainty surrounding human influence over climate, states like California have taken huge steps to (supposedly) tackle the problem. By 2020 it will require one-third of its electricity generation to come from “renewable” energy like solar and wind in order to decrease its carbon emissions.But according to new research by the Manhattan Institute, these policies will make electricity prices soar. Author Jonathan A. Lesser even says the Golden State’s scheme will create “energy poverty” for at least one million households, meaning that energy costs will exceed 10 percent of a family’s income.


One way to increase poverty is to decrease jobs, the result of Spain’s


aggressive push towards renewable energy. Each green job “created” (at a minimum price of over $618,000) destroyed 2.2 jobs elsewhere, greatly contributing to the country’s economic demise.



​




​
Otherwise one can only watch powerlessly as one of the richest states in the country regulates itself into poverty. If the Canadian province of Ontario is any indication, then it will likely cause businesses to leave when they can’t afford skyrocketing energy prices.It’s happened in Europe. It’s happened in Canada. Don’t think it can’t happen in America.¹



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And you guys stand by and watch this going on, not even collecting your permit fees from it.



​


¹ http://watchdog.org/235342/californias-energy-policies-hurt-poor/

 
MASSDRIVER said:
And that was my point. I froze a cslb rep in thier tracks with that. Of course I was told that was not the intent. Cry me a river then.

Nobody, and mean nobody, is going to hire an electrician at $200 an hour to wire up a small remodel. Plus it makes no sense. Conversely, I'm ok getting my own certification provided I'm allowed to just take a test and pass it, rather than adopt a new career just to obtain an electrical certificate of liability, which is all it is.

Brent.
Click to expand...
Brent:

As we know, everything government employees do they **** up, but maybe they'll get it right, eventually. If the ICC can't even write reasonable understandable codes, and they are a NGO, how do you expect the legislature to write reasonable statutes? I wouldn't touch electrical, actually I don't do anything anymore, if there is a house fire and it's blamed on electrical you are toast even with that wording, the intent is obvious to a reasonable person under the "reasonable person standard".

Stick to something that you know and are good at, you are coming down here to Pleasanton this weekend to throw the caber aren't you? That mountain man from Iceland is going to be here to challenge you, he's 6'9 and 480 pounds, instead of throwing dwarfs and cabers how about we warm up throwing building inspectors? ¹

We've got to get ready for the revolution, there will be lots of guys in kilts all over the place, no girlie men in sight.

¹ http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci_28744712/great-scot:-the-mountain-set-to-take-on-challengers-at-the-scottish-games-in-pleasanton
 
Conarb....You aren't actually criticizing a company for "capitalizing" on the flaws in the system are you? Isn't that what makes America great?
 
steveray said:
Conarb....You aren't actually criticizing a company for "capitalizing" on the flaws in the system are you? Isn't that what makes America great?
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Never thought of it that way Steve, just look at the money you can make if you ignore codes and laws. I was once informing an owner about my progress getting a permit for his new home, at one point I said something like: "And then I met with the CBO.....", when I was done he asked: "What does CBO stand for, Chief Building Obstructionist? Is that Solar City's secret, get taxpayer money and stay away from the obstructionists? Who needs permits anyway, Solar City doesn't bother, they do nothing but eat away profits, who needs licensed contractors, the work can be done by slave labor just waiting at Home Depot, no need to fund those silly social security taxes, unemployment taxes, no need to carry insurance since if they get hurt they've got no right to sue and can just go back to Mexico to live their lives out. The only cops on the beat controlling this are the inspectors, and they don't give a damn as long as they get their salaries and benefits. So what if someone gets electrocuted, we have an overpopulation problem and human life is the most renewable resource on the planet, if there are so many of them who cares, they just keep reproducing anyway?
 
steveray said:
Exactly.....Exploit the working class, take what you can and give nothing back!....Works for Wal-Mart...
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Global warming is the best device ever devised to tax the working class, carbon taxes reach everyone rich or poor, and they are peanuts to the rich, but sometimes force the poor to eat dog food if they want to drive to work or heat their homes.
 
It has been years since we have had a wet winter. Next winter is predicted to bring lots of rain.



Roofs like this may be a problem.



This is speculation on my part but I think that the average roofing contractor is not going want this work.

If the roof isn't shot but is leaking at a penetration the roofer faces a tough time pinpointing which penetration needs a pail of Henry. This roof has solar on both sides of the roof and there are 36 penetrations.

If the roof is shot, and many of them are, my AHJ requires that a permit to R&R the solar equipment and the permit shall be obtained by a licensed C-10(electrical contractor) or C-46(solar contractor). If they have the original plans for the solar we will accept them. If there are no original plans, new plans shall be created. This will add several thousand dollars to the cost of a new roof. A lot of solar will end up being sold on Craig's List or in a landfill.







 
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In the shadows of the solar water heater and chimney there will be PV modules. I pointed out that the modules don't work well in the shade and the workman explained that after 3:00pm the Sun will shine, which I thought was great news.

 
POST #258, exactly what I envisioned. Issues with re-roofing

We are being asked here to streamline the process of getting a permit, apparently some of u's are putting up road blocks for the solar industry. Shame on you little buggers!

A thought I had a long time ago was how you going to re-roof your little abode with all that crap on your roof. Are you gonna hire an electrician to remove the array?

I'm sure the POCO is trying to figure out how they can make up for the lost revenue, you know they need a new bright white truck that seats six employees.
 
\ said:
We are being asked here to streamline the process of getting a permit, apparently some of u's are putting up road blocks for the solar industry. Shame on you little buggers!
Click to expand...
Who is asking you to "streamline"?
 
conarb said:
Who is asking you to "streamline"?
Click to expand...
Here in California it is the State. Senate Bill 2188 mandates that there be a 24hr turn around on plan check and we are allowed just one inspection. We may also stop inspecting smoke and co detectors and accept a statement instead.
 
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conarb said:
Who is asking you to "streamline"?
Click to expand...
US DOE's SunShot Initiative, silly!

Goal is to develop best management practices for reducing the "soft cost" of solar systems. They want cities to follow guidelines and be uniform in enforcement so they can get more junk on the residential roof.

They want permit checklist, zoning issues cleaned up.

Then when you've cleaned up the process your city is listed with all the other trained pig cities as a: Solar Ready participant. Yea!
 
IRC 106.5 Retention of construction plans to be retained for 180 days from date of completion or as required by state or local laws.

This makes me think I can purge my files?
 
Only required to manitain Non Residential

CA HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE

SECTION 19850-19853

19850. The building department of every city or county shall maintain an official copy, which may be on microfilm or other type of photographic copy, of the plans of every building, during the life of the building, for which the department issued a building permit.

"Building department" means the department, bureau, or officer charged with the enforcement of laws or ordinances regulating the erection, construction, or alteration of buildings.

Except for plans of a common interest development as defined in Section 4100 or 6534 of the Civil Code, plans need not be filed for:

(a) Single or multiple dwellings not more than two stories and basement in height.

(b) Garages and other structures appurtenant to buildings described under subdivision (a).

© Farm or ranch buildings.

(d) Any one-story building where the span between bearing walls does not exceed 25 feet. The exemption in this subdivision does not, however, apply to a steel frame or concrete building.

19851. (a) The official copy of the plans maintained by the building department of the city or county provided for under Section 19850 shall be open for inspection only on the premises of the building department as a public record. The copy may not be duplicated in whole or in part except (1) with the written permission, which permission shall not be unreasonably withheld as specified in subdivision (f), of the certified, licensed or registered professional or his or her successor, if any, who signed the original documents and the written permission of the original or current owner of the building, or, if the building is part of a common interest development, with the written permission of the board of directors or governing body of the association established to manage the common interest development, or (2) by order of a proper court or upon the request of any state agency.

(b) Any building department of a city or county, which is requested to duplicate the official copy of the plans maintained by the building department, shall request written permission to do so from the certified, licensed, or registered professional, or his or her successor, if any, who signed the original documents and from (1) the original or current owner of the building or (2), if the building is part of a common interest development, from the board of

directors or other governing body of the association established to manage the common interest development.

© The building department shall also furnish the form of an affidavit to be completed and signed by the person requesting to duplicate the official copy of the plans, which contains provisions stating all of the following:

(1) That the copy of the plans shall only be used for the maintenance, operation, and use of the building.

(2) That drawings are instruments of professional service and are incomplete without the interpretation of the certified, licensed, or registered professional of record.

(3) That subdivision (a) of Section 5536.25 of the Business and Professions Code states that a licensed architect who signs plans, specifications, reports, or documents shall not be responsible for damage caused by subsequent changes to, or use of, those plans, specifications, reports, or documents where the subsequent changes or uses, including changes or uses made by state or local governmental agencies, are not authorized or approved by the licensed architect who originally signed the plans, specifications, reports, or documents, provided that the architectural service rendered by the architect who signed the plans, specifications, reports, or documents was not also a proximate cause of the damage.

(d) The request by the building department to a licensed, registered, or certified professional may be made by the building department sending a registered or certified letter to the licensed, registered, or certified professional requesting his or her permission to duplicate the official copy of the plans and sending with the registered or certified letter, a copy of the affidavit furnished by the building department which has been completed and signed by the person requesting to duplicate the official copy of the plans. The registered or certified letters shall be sent by the building department to the most recent address of the licensed, registered, or certified professional available from the California State Board of Architectural Examiners.

(e) The governing body of the city or county may establish a fee to be paid by any person who requests the building department of the city or county to duplicate the official copy of any plans pursuant to this section, in an amount which it determines is reasonably necessary to cover the costs of the building department pursuant to this section.

(f) The certified, licensed, or registered professional's refusal to permit the duplication of the plans is unreasonable if, upon request from the building department, the professional does either of the following:

(1) Fails to respond to the local building department within 30 days of receipt by the professional of the request. However, if the building department determines that professional is unavailable to respond within 30 days of receipt of the request due to serious illness, travel, or other extenuating circumstances, the time period shall be extended by the building department to allow the professional adequate time to respond, as determined to be appropriate to the individual circumstance, but not to exceed 60 days.

(2) Refuses to give his or her permission for the duplication of the plans after receiving the signed affidavit and registered or certified letter specified in subdivisions © and (d).

19852. The governing body of a county or city, including a charter city, may prescribe such fees as will pay the expenses incurred bythe building department of such city or county in maintaining the official copy of the plans of buildings for which it has issued a building permit, but the fees shall not exceed the amount reasonably required by the building department in maintaining the official copy of the plans of buildings for which it has issued a building permit.

The fees shall be imposed pursuant to Section 66016 of the Government Code.

19853. This chapter shall not apply to any building containing a bank, other financial institution, or public utility.
 




Each of the spots is a pile of shlt. The tiles are nailed. Thank goodness for that.....I hate walking on this type of roof.....waiting for a tile to slide out and dump me.



A closer look tells me that it's not nails that I see but perhaps a wire. Whatever it is there appears to be a hole for that purpose.

Have any of you seen flying pigs?

23168063341_efa65d29fc_b.jpg
 
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