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Sole plate alternatives to treated

C

chris33

Registered User
Joined
Mar 11, 2024
Messages
6
Location
idaho
Hello all,

I am trying to get technical clarity on this subject without emotional opinions.. I have called my local building dept, the ICC and posted on another forum and can get a consensus.

I read this older post from this website

R317.1Location required.​

Protection of wood and wood-based products from decay shall be provided in the following locations by the use of naturally durable wood or wood that is preservative-treated in accordance with AWPA U1.
  1. Wood framing members, including columns, that rest directly on concrete or masonry exterior foundation walls and are less than 8 inches (203 mm) from the exposed ground.
First,, this is not about cutting corners,, The buytl will cost more,, I have been building since the 80s and always used treated sill and sill sealer.. It was recommended to me to use butyl Rubber in lieu
of treated for ease or ordering, availability and strength..

Anyway,, using engineered or framing lumber and adhering 6" butyl rubber would simplify things on a few levels,, Vycor says yes, has a drawing with no data, My local dept say is is OK with no data, ICC has no answer, Dupont has no advice. In the above link some contractors say they have been using Vycor/Grace for years.

Also,,,,, If greater than 8 inches above ground contact no treatment is needed??????

Thanks in advance.
Chris
 
steveray said:
And what are you doing about the sheathing?
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The build is 100% 15/32 OSB, 2x6 12' walls.

One of the perks of non-treated sill is using the gun,,, I do not have a HDG nail gun. regular galv nail will not pass.
 
2021 IRC 317.1
Wood framing members, including columns, that rest directly on concrete or masonry exterior foundation walls and are less than 8 inches (203 mm) from the exposed ground.
Sills and sleepers on a concrete or masonry slab that is in direct contact with the ground unless separated from such slab by an impervious moisture barrier.

The wood is resting on butyl tape, not concrete. As long as there is no possibility of moisture migrating through the butyl tape into the wood, you have a perfectly code-compliant solution.
 
IRC 317.1
5. Wood siding, sheathing and wall framing on the exterior of a building having a clearance of less than 6 inches (152 mm) from the ground or less than 2 inches (51 mm) measured vertically from concrete steps, porch slabs, patio slabs and similar horizontal surfaces exposed to the weather.

I would say this rule is closer to what you are doing, as this section is talking about exterior walls, rather than columns.
 
In my time as an inspector I never encountered someone being slick with untreated sills on exterior walls. It’s always treated lumber. Termites might play a role here. I have seen the addition of 30# felt.
 
ICE said:
In my time as an inspector I never encountered someone being slick with untreated sills on exterior walls. It’s always treated lumber. Termites might play a role here. I have seen the addition of 30# felt.
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I never lived where termites were an issue. Love these below zero winters.
 
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ICE said:
In my time as an inspector I never encountered someone being slick with untreated sills on exterior walls. It’s always treated lumber. Termites might play a role here. I have seen the addition of 30# felt.
Click to expand...
I agree,,, I have never seen non-treated. I am in Idaho,,, No termites or ants to worry about. I have seen corrosion with wrong fasteners and wonder what it looks like 15 years later hidden in a wall.

I have 12' walls standing on top of a concrete stem wall so my bottom wall plate is the sole plate.. .. As i overthink this,, I wonder if a compromised HDG nail is worse than a protected sill plate when shear and wind loads apply?

Back to the origin, Thought it was odd to be advertised by Vycor and Okayed by my building dept but can not find any ICC data about it.
 
Borate blue treated sill plate material is available and I have seen redwood used.

When I was overseeing residential house construction, I had a building inspector say I had to use treated sill plates and I disagreed with him, he insisted that I use CCA treated lumber. I felt that seal sealer and white wood sole plates were fine below grade for partition walls, the seal sealer gave us a barrier. He said NO! and the boss said let's try to get along. So then we used cheaper blue borate sole plates and he came back at us again, saying NO!

Sometimes you just throw your hands up in the air and give up! Wasn't worth the time to go over his head.
 
SCBO1 said:
Borate blue treated sill plate material is available and I have seen redwood used.

When I was overseeing residential house construction, I had a building inspector say I had to use treated sill plates and I disagreed with him, he insisted that I use CCA treated lumber. I felt that seal sealer and white wood sole plates were fine below grade for partition walls, the seal sealer gave us a barrier. He said NO! and the boss said let's try to get along. So then we used cheaper blue borate sole plates and he came back at us again, saying NO!

Sometimes you just throw your hands up in the air and give up! Wasn't worth the time to go over his head.
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I just got off the phone with ICC,,, they insist on an account (200$ per year) to submit a question to an advocate..

I emailed them; If I get a reply i will post it..

Hello,

Would you provide clarity for 317.1 and sole plates.
Considering ACQ lumber and its concerns we were suggested to use a Butyl rubber "vycor/DuPont" on the concrete stem wall in lieu of PT lumber.. I like the idea for simplicity. No HDG nails for stud, no ordering PT for just sole plates,, No worrying about HDG nails for sheathing etc.

317.1 #2--- If a sill is more than 8" above ground contact,, nothing is needed???? Am i reading that right?

317.1--#3, If impervious MB is allowed for a sleeper,,, does this apply to a sill on top of a stem wall?

Side note,, with all of the gaskets, membranes and liquid synthetics in the market is ICC testing any for future code revisions?
 
Without complying with the ICC extortion they will not interpret one question.

Hello,

Thanks for your question about code opinions. While we do assist clients with code opinions, this service is available to our members only. If you are a member with the Code Council, please contact the Code Opinion department at 888.422.7233 ext 33807.
 
chris33 said:
Without complying with the ICC extortion they will not interpret one question.

Hello,

Thanks for your question about code opinions. While we do assist clients with code opinions, this service is available to our members only. If you are a member with the Code Council, please contact the Code Opinion department at 888.422.7233 ext 33807.
Click to expand...
Perhaps a TBCF member that is also an ICC member can pose the question to ICC.
 
Riddle me this,,, How corrosive is ACQ lumber in a dry location? i.e. sill plate? Although I have built many projects with HDG and ACQ i still can't wrap my head around having a fastener with a degrading service life.

The last 30x60 garage we did was with PT and HDG,,, in my mind it will never fail because it is dry service? Still seems like the dumbest thing to treat lumber with ACQ. Did anyone ever get sick from ACC?
 
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