special inspections

[BSSTG]

Greetings,

2012 IBC applicable

1704.1 states something to the effect that the design professional in responsible charge can act as the approved agency and their personnel can act as special inspectors for a project if the building official approve.

So if the registered design professional in responsible charge also happens to be an employee of the owner of the facility being built and inspected, would you as building officials accept that?

I am dubious about this. Personally, I am a master electrician. So to me it would be the same thing that I build an elect service (or whatever) and I inspect my own work. Now I am the best master electrician that I know of in the county and don't have an issue with my work. But I don't know about this P.E. I've already flagged them on life safety issues and I just don't know structural steel and such.

Have a Blessed weekend!

BSSTG

 

[JCraver]

Sure. All the liability is on them. Require documentation of their inspections and stick their reports in the job file.

If you're there on other inspections and see something their inspector/engineer should have seen, write it up like you would anything else.

 

[BayPointArchitect]

Our philosophy of Special Inspections is that the Structural Engineer can rely on a third party inspection agency to verify key areas of construction. The training and equipment used for those special inspections is more than what is expected from our regular building inspectors. For example, we do not have an x-ray scanner for inspecting welding. But if the structural engineer wants to provide special inspections during construction, then there is nothing in the code to prevent him/her from doing so.

We learned alot from Walmart construction projects. Walmart does not trust their low-bid contractors to do anything correctly and the special inspection agency proved their worth as they forced the General Contractor to replace shoddy sub-contractors with someone who cares enough about their work to get it right the first time.

I agree with the previous post. Require copies of the periodic inspections, final inspection report and file them away in the event that something goes wrong.

 

[MASSDRIVER]

Greetings, I am a master electrician. Now I am the best master electrician that I know of in the county and don't have an issue with my work. BSSTG

And you guys doubted me about electricians.

Brent.

 

[TheCommish]

Massachusetts amends the IBC and through a series of construction control document and code requirements has the RDP select with guidance the points of inspections done by someone, at times it is the PE or their designee or a 3rd party. If third party testing is done it is usually paid for by the owner who selects the company to do the testing such as field welding, bolting, concrete and rebar placement and cracking, asphalt placement and of course compaction for soils and structural fill

 

[ICE]

1704A.2 Special inspections. Where application is made forconstruction as described in this section, the owner shall

employ one or more approved agencies to perform inspections

during construction on the types of work listed under

Section 1705A. These inspections are in addition to the

inspections identified in Section 110.

Who approves? We approve....or not.

The registered design professional in responsiblecharge and engineers of record involved in the design of

the project are permitted to act as the approved agency and

their personnel are permitted to act as the special inspector

for the work designed by them, provided they qualify as

special inspectors.

Who qualifies them? We qualify them....or not.

1704A.2.1 Special inspector qualifications. The specialinspector shall provide written documentation to the building

official demonstrating his or her competence and relevant

experience or training. Experience or training shall be

considered relevant when the documented experience or

training is related in complexity to the same type of special

inspection activities for projects of similar complexity

and material qualities. These qualifications are in addition

to qualifications specified in other sections of this code.

It doesn't happen overnight.

 

[conarb]

The way it works, here anyway, is that at some point early in the construction I give the AHJ my 1704.4 Statement of Responsibility listing all of my proposed special inspectors and stating my qualifications to manage the special inspectors, I've never been turned down probably because of my years in business and Law Degree, although I've seen some young contractors required to employ a construction manager or engineer to oversee the special inspections.

1704.4 Contractor responsibility. Each contractor responsiblefor the construction of a main wind- or seismic force-resisting

system, designated seismic system or a wind or

seismic-resisting component listed in the statement of special

inspections shall submit a written statement of responsibility

to the building official and the owner prior to the commencement

of work on the system or component. The contractor’s

statement of responsibility shall contain acknowledgement of

awareness of the special requirements contained in the statement

of special inspection.

 

[Mark K]

The original posting implies that special inspections are related to electrical work. There are no special inspections for electrical work. Any code required inspections of electrical work is provided by the AHJ. The owner is free to require whatever additional inspections he/she wants.

Conarb the Contractors statement of responsibility does not require you to list the special inspectors. In fact the intention of Section 1704.2 is that the Owner selects and controls, with the assistance of his agents and consultants, the special inspectors not the contractor. The contractors role is limited to notification of when inspections are needed and providing access to the inspectors.

 

[conarb]

The original posting implies that special inspections are related to electrical work. There are no special inspections for electrical work. Any code required inspections of electrical work is provided by the AHJ. The owner is free to require whatever additional inspections he/she wants.

Mark:

I understand, and I don't pay them, I have the owner pay them, but owners and many time architects don't even know who they are so I refer them and take their contracts to the owners to have them sign them. I manage them in that I call them when I'm ready, the big one is welding, engineers want as much welding as possible to be done in the shop, but the reality is much is done in the field, also I'm going towards UT after the structural steel is complete, so much shop observation is redundant. I my cost control spreadsheet I put the estimates in and then back them out with a note: "To be paid by owner". At least they are forewarned this way.

Owners hate special inspections, and as much as I explain it to them they don't understand, in one owner's words, Why all these layers of inspection"?

 

[BSSTG]

The original posting implies that special inspections are related to electrical work. There are no special inspections for electrical work. Any code required inspections of electrical work is provided by the AHJ. The owner is free to require whatever additional inspections he/she wants.Conarb the Contractors statement of responsibility does not require you to list the special inspectors. In fact the intention of Section 1704.2 is that the Owner selects and controls, with the assistance of his agents and consultants, the special inspectors not the contractor. The contractors role is limited to notification of when inspections are needed and providing access to the inspectors.

This has nothing to do with electric actually. It has everything to do with a large F1 or maybe F2 building for structural and life safety. I was just pointing out what I see is a conflict of interest. It would be the same for the design engineer to inspect his own work in a building that he designed for a company that he works for and me inspecting my own work as an electrical contractor if I did work on property I own. I would not have an issue with a design engineer confirming compliance with a building he designed for a 3rd party but I do have an issue with the design engineer approving his own work owned by the company he works for to put it another way. Nevertheless, I told them that I would not accept them providing compliance reports and so forth. They agreed to have a 3rd party engineer confirm the work. I'm not bending on it. Here in coastal Texas compliance for windstorm is required to be done by engineers approved by TDI anyway. I would never expect an AHJ to accept me inspecting my own work.

BTW, I would love to tell you folks who this company is but it would be completely inappropriate IMO. I will say that they are a privately owned multi billion dollar company with a really crappy safety record.

BS

 

[SCBO1]

I have a concern with the special inspection reports being submitted after cover up. Several times the SI showed devations ie. rebar being the wrong size and bar lengths being shorter than plan requirements as examples. The report comes in after the pours.

So the inspection is done by the SI but the contractor moves forward, is this now the AHJ responsibility to enforce a stop work order?

 

[ICE]

I get a report from the SI before approving the work. The SI can't approve the work and allow the concrete pour on his own authority. Only the AHJ inspector can do that.

 

[mtlogcabin]

The original posting implies that special inspections are related to electrical work. There are no special inspections for electrical work.

Not correct, certain seismic areas require special inspection for electrical work

1705.11.6 Mechanical and electrical components.

Special inspection for mechanical and electrical components shall be as follows:

1. Periodic special inspection is required during the anchorage of electrical equipment for emergency or standby power systems in structures assigned to Seismic Design Category C, D, E or F;

2. Periodic special inspection is required during the anchorage of other electrical equipment in structures assigned to Seismic Design Category E or F;

 

[David Henderson]

Unless the design professional has the certs he can only do structural observation not Special Inspection, nothing gets covered until the AHJ signs off.

 

[Mark K]

The inspections covered by 1705.11.6 apply to the anchorage and structural integrity of the electrical and mechanical systems and not with the issues covered in the electrical code. This was inserted in the code as a result of a proposal by structural engineers.

Special inspections are defined in the IBC and can only apply to those issues addressed in the IBC. The IBC does not address issues related to wire size and type, connection of wires, or electrical rating of equipment. Thus the special inspections noted are limited to the items noted in the previous paragraph.

 

[ADAguy]

So, the CAD welding of UFER grounds does not require special inspection?

 

[Mark K]

I realize that there are some special inspections, such as welding, that require special expertise that most engineers do not have. Professional engineers are assumed to know their limitations and not to practice in an area where they are not knowledgeable. On the other hand to say that the registered engineer who designed the structure cannot perform the rebar, concrete placement, and wood inspections without a certification does not make sense.

Would you tell a geotechnical engineer that he could not perform the soil special inspections for a project he prepared the geotechnical report for?

The practice of engineering includes the performance of inspections. California law says that local jurisdictions cannot impose additional limitations on the ability of an individual licensed by the state. Reference Business and Professions Code Section 460. Thus at least in California the building department cannot limit the ability of a professional engineer to perform special inspections having to do with work covered by his license.

 

[Mark K]

ADAguy

Not per Chapter 17 of the IBC or in California the CBC. This is not to say that other codes do not require inspection of this work.

There are inspections performed by the AHJ, special inspections, and other inspections that may be required by various standards. Chapter 17 is limited to special inspections.

 

[David Henderson]

If the concrete placement is required to have Special Inspection, never met a designer who can make up cylinders, or do a slump test.

 

[ICE]

Thus at least in California the building department cannot limit the ability of a professional engineer to perform special inspections having to do with work covered by his license.

As much as I like engineers, I must tell you that they make for lousy inspectors. The next time there is an engineer doing a structural observation, pay attention to the fact that he will not have a tape measure. He will pen out a statement that says that the work is in "substantial" conformance to the plans. That's because he is pretty sure that there are a few discrepancies but he doesn't know what they are.

Re-bar in the dirt is okay. 5/8" anchor bolts apparently work just as well as 3/4". Those huge dormers that aren't on the plans didn't raise an eyebrow. Extra windows trump braced wall any day. 20 penny sinkers for 3x framing are the same as common nails. And on and on. So no, engineers will not replace deputy inspectors.

Then there's the theory that an AHJ can only ask for the deputy that is spelled out in the code. That is wrong. I have, and will continue to require a deputy when it needs to be done. Here's a good example: And I think I have mentioned this before. The job was a few million sqft of warehouse. There was panelized roof structure with guns pumping out nails all day long. The nailers kept driving the nails too deep into the plywood. I finally deputized Cindy. Cindy was the concrete deputy and that phase was winding down. I showed her what to look for and she stayed on top of it. The work turned out passable after that.

So as an inspector, if you feel that shlt ain't happening right and they need better supervision, by all means get them a deputy. Or you can just tell them to quit working, and now and then, that's the better option.

So now I'm bound to hear some sob sister's lament: "You can't do that" "You don't have the authority" "Where is that in the code?"

Okay, Okay, Okay. You're right about the authority and it's not in the code but you're wrong about the "You can't do that"....... I already have.

 

[Mark K]

There is confusion about the difference between structural observation and inspections. Structural Observation is focused on the big picture while inspections are focused on the detail.

 

[ICE]

Was it not suggested that engineers can do inspections? I pointed out that engineers can't be trusted to get it right with the big picture, much less the details. On a structural observation where an engineer missed the fact that 5/8 anchor bolts were used on a three story university dormitory when 3/4" were specified he can say that the work is substantially in compliance with the plans because there are anchor bolts.

 

[BayPointArchitect]

So many issues regarding trust. The client doesn't trust the design professional to design it economically, the design professional doesn't trust the contractor to build it the way he designed it, the AHJ doesn't trust his coworkers or anyone else, so we rely on the special inspectors who are employed by someone who is qualified but instead sends out a rookie to do the detailed inspections. Copies of the special inspections may be found in the job trailer and nothing has really improved.

Okay. I think I got it.

 

[BSSTG]

Once again. I don't have a problem with an engineer certifying his own design is constructed properly........as long as that project is not owned by the employer of the engineer.

BS