Splicing joists over bearing girder

[cyberwombat]

In IRC 2018 - 502.6.1 Floor Systems: "Joists framing from opposite sides over a bearing support shall lap not less than 3 inches (76 mm) and shall be nailed together with a minimum three 10d face nails. A wood or metal splice with strength equal to or greater than that provided by the nailed lap is permitted." - I have some 2x10 @ 24 oc and am trying to find what simpson or other metal splice is permitted. Is there some reference on splices that might indicate that it meets the required strength?

 

[cyberwombat]

For example here are some tie plates - https://www.strongtie.com/miscellaneousplates_miscellaneousconnectors/tp_plate/p/tp - but I can't tell if/which would be permitted by code

 

[steveray]

Whatever the inspector will permit...

 

[e hilton]

I think in order to use that nail plate you linked to, the supporting beam would have to be at least 3” wide to provide 1-1/2” bearing for each joist.

 

[redeyedfly]

Simpson technical support has always been very helpful for me.

 

[ICE]

Whatever the inspector will permit...

I would approve that hardware. It is overkill.

 

[redeyedfly]

Now I’m trying to figure why this code provision exists and what force, in what direction must the metal strap be equal to.

 

[SCBO1]

Probably more cost effective to cut wood blocks and nail to the sides of the floor joist covering the end butts at floor framing installation stage.

 

[Mark K]

Lapping the joists creates a problem with floor plywood layout when sheathing spans over the bearing girder. The edges of the floor plywood no longer naturally occur over a joist.

Just because Simpson sells a product, or the inspector approves it does not make it code compliant.

Of course, you could use provisions in the IBC to find a solution to find a solution but that may require involving an engineer.

 

[steveray]

Just because Simpson sells a product, or the inspector approves it does not make it code compliant.

Yes it does....

APPROVED. Acceptable to the building official.

 

[bill1952]

wouldn't a 2x10 say 2' long, with at least 3 10d nails each side of joists butted meet the intent of

A wood or metal splice with strength equal to or greater than that provided by the nailed lap is permitted.

 

[SCBO1]

ouldn't a 2x10 say 2' long, with at least 3 10d nails each side of joists butted meet the intent of

Bill, I could live with that application.

 

[ICE]

Now I’m trying to figure why this code provision exists and what force, in what direction must the metal strap be equal to.

The lap nails will not see any force in any direction. If there was anything going on would the answer be three 10d nails?

 

[jar546]

Yes it does....

APPROVED. Acceptable to the building official.

Sometimes the inspectors approve stuff like this without the approval of the Building Official so I can't agree with you. It just happened today to me where one of the plumbing inspectors overstepped their boundaries and the building manager contacted me because she knew what he suggested was wrong.

 

[Mark K]

Yes it does....

APPROVED. Acceptable to the building official.

Approved is a term building official like, but it is not all powerful.

Why then do we need a building code.?

The courts have recognized that a completed building approved by the building official can still have code violations.

 

[ICE]

Approved is a term building official like, but it is not all powerful.

When it comes to simple stuff like the joist lap splice hardware you are tilting at windmills.

Exercising decision making authority on even the most mundane aspects of construction bothers you. Then the ridiculous comes out with questions like: “Why then do we need a building code.? And statements such as: “The courts have recognized that a completed building approved by the building official can still have code violations.”

Of course buildings are completed with intact code violations. Who would expect anything different? Consider that doctors kill 50,000 people every year just in the USA. Disney has alligators in the kid’s wading pond.

Come out of the shadows and join the real world.

 

[TheCommish]

Lap the joist, then if and where needed scab a 2x4 to the side of the joist for a nailer

 

[Mark K]

I have lived in the real world where if there were problems with my designs I could be personally sued. I call on building officials to reject the immunity that they have and enter the real world. Take real responsibility do not hide behind immunity.

I am still having difficulty in understanding how in our system of laws that what the building official says on a given date is what the building code requires and that there are no limits on the building official. When I find that there are no limits on the building official, the logical conclusion is that the published building code is a waste of paper.

It would be refreshing for building officials, plan checkers, and inspectors to recognize that there are limits on their authority. Related to this is that while building officials are charged with interpreting the building code it is suggested that in order to interpret many code provisions one needs some understanding of the reason for the code provision. My experience suggests that inspectors typically do not have this understanding. In addition, when the building official's only training was the training that they got when they worked in the trades these individuals are at a disadvantage. Many code provisions are not as simple as they may appear to be. How do building officials without the appropriate training compensate? There is a difference between having authority and having the understanding/expertise to exercise that authority.

 

[bill1952]

I am still having difficulty in understanding how in our system of laws that what the building official says on a given date is what the building code requires and that there are no limits on the building official.

Kind of like a judge in a court isn't it.

 

[Mark K]

Kind of like a judge in a court isn't it

But there are limits on what judges can do.

Since our legal system does not classify building officials as judges they are not able adopt new laws without the involvement of the legislative branch. of government.

 

[ICE]

Mark K said:
“I have lived in the real world where if there were problems with my designs I could be personally sued. I call on building officials to reject the immunity that they have and enter the real world. Take real responsibility do not hide behind immunity”

If building officials didn’t have immunity there would be exponentially longer construction delays. As it is, a great many building officials and inspectors have a difficult time committing to a course of action; imagine if they then had to worry about being sued for any and all decisions. Well the logical answer to that is don’t make any decisions.

Another consequence is that nobody would have ultimate authority. No decision would be final as the threat of court action looms large.

 

[ICE]

Sometimes the inspectors approve stuff like this without the approval of the Building Official so I can't agree with you. It just happened today to me where one of the plumbing inspectors overstepped their boundaries and the building manager contacted me because she knew what he suggested was wrong.

If I was required to get the Building Official’s approval for that splice plate I would turn it down and hope for a different Building Official.

 

[jar546]

If I was required to get the Building Official’s approval for that splice plate I would turn it down and hope for a different Building Official.

If you approved something that was not code compliant and had no reason to be non-code compliant, I would be getting a new inspector.

 

[ICE]

I would be getting a new inspector.

Like they are just falling out of the palm trees in Florida. The truth of what is tolerated is that an inspector has to quit showing up for work before you get a new one.