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Sprinkler required?

M

mailtruck

REGISTERED
Joined
Jul 9, 2021
Messages
16
Location
Wisconsin
Hello forum,

I have a business in a 3500 sq ft space and want to expand into a 2000 sq ft adjacent space.
Is it possible to do this without triggering a sprinkler system?
 
You mention being in a 3500 sq ft space and expanding into a 2000 sq ft space. Is 5500 the total sq ft of the building? If not then what is the total sq ft of the building you are in?
 
RLGA said:
What is your business and what was the adjacent space used for?
Click to expand...
Mixed use, services and some retail.
Adjacent space was also service/retail but is generally associated with all retail.
mtlogcabin said:
You mention being in a 3500 sq ft space and expanding into a 2000 sq ft space. Is 5500 the total sq ft of the building? If not then what is the total sq ft of the building you are in?
Click to expand...
7200
 
Probably. The allowable area for the building isn't exceeded, and the fire area is small enough. Other details can have an effect like construction type, other occupancies and number of stories. Assuming type VB, single story M classifications, at 7200ft² you are probably OK. Your DP is the best source of answers. Art sales (Art Gallery????) and artist work space is a little open to interpretation, but if remaining a mercantile it sounds acceptable.
 
Sifu said:
Probably. The allowable area for the building isn't exceeded, and the fire area is small enough. Other details can have an effect like construction type, other occupancies and number of stories. Assuming type VB, single story M classifications, at 7200ft² you are probably OK. Your DP is the best source of answers. Art sales (Art Gallery????) and artist work space is a little open to interpretation, but if remaining a mercantile it sounds acceptable.
Click to expand...
 
It is a stand alone building. First floor is 5500. Second floor is 2000. My business would occupy all of the space.
 
Depends on what part of the IEBC you are using and the type of construction and what year code.. For example a B occupancy with type VB construction can only be 9,000 sq. ft. per 2015 IBC.
Don't you have a architect?
 
If you are strictly an M occupancy then #4 should be the only reason a sprinkler maybe required based on the size of your building

[F] 903.2.7 Group M.
An automatic sprinkler system shall be provided throughout buildings containing a Group M occupancy where one of the following conditions exists:

1. A Group M fire area exceeds 12,000 square feet (1115 m2).

2. A Group M fire area is located more than three stories above grade plane.

3. The combined area of all Group M fire areas on all floors, including any mezzanines, exceeds 24,000 square feet (2230 m2).

4. A Group M occupancy used for the display and sale of upholstered furniture or mattresses exceeds 5,000 square feet (464 m2).
 
OP mentions retail, hence an M designation. If B then even better. Still leaning towards no sprinkler, based on what we know. The area limitations would be per floor, so I don't see any issue there.
 
Rick18071 said:
Depends on what part of the IEBC you are using and the type of construction and what year code.. For example a B occupancy with type VB construction can only be 9,000 sq. ft. per 2015 IBC.
Don't you have a architect?
Click to expand...
Yes I do have an architect. They say no sprinkler needed. A second architect confirmed. Fire department is firm on needing one.
 
mailtruck said:
Yes I do have an architect. They say no sprinkler needed. A second architect confirmed. Fire department is firm on needing one.
Click to expand...



What code section did they cite, for the requirement???

Or was it verbal or written, with no code section attached????

I no, go back and ask nicely, so you can research it, and also post the section here.
 
NFPA Codes, NFPA 13

Wisconsin DSPS Codes: 2013 Wisconsin Act 270.
(g) Additions. Remodeled Buildings and Change of Use. All existing public buildings or places of employment, and all additions shalI conform to this section, as follows: 1. More than 50% remodeled or added. If more than 50% of the gross area of a building is remodeled and/or added, the entire building shall comply with the requirements of this section. 3. The percentage of a building remodeled or added from the date of passage of this Code shall be added together for each remodeling or addition to get the total percentages remodeled or added. 4. Any building with an existing sprinkler system, when making an addition, regardless of size or occupancy, will sprinkler the addition in accordance with National Fire Protection Association 13. 5. If the use of an existing building is changed to a new use, it shall comply with all aspects of this Code.

Municipal Code 5.10.
Additions, Remodeled Buildings and Change of Use. All existing public buildings or places of employment, and all additions shall conform to this section, as follows:
  1. More than 50% remodeled or added. If more than 50% of the gross area of a building is remodeled and/or added, the entire building shall comply with the requirements of this section.
  2. If additions to a principal building combine to meet or exceed the limits set forth in Section 5.10(16)(b), the building shall comply with all aspects of this Code.
  3. The percentage of a building remodeled or added from the date of passage of this Code shall be added together for each remodeling or addition to get the total percentages remodeled or added.
  4. Any building with an existing sprinkler system, when making an addition, regardless of size or occupancy, will sprinkler the addition in accordance with National Fire Protection Association 13.
  5. If the use of an existing building is changed to a new use, it shall comply with all aspects of this Code
 
Local municipalities have the authority to adopt more restrictive codes. Generally when questions are posed here we are talking about model codes that are subsequently adopted by states, and/or cities, counties, etc... The model codes may not require sprinklers, but if the FD cites a valid local ordinance/code that is more restrictive then that will prevail. Theoretically a city could make a local code that says "all buildings shall be sprinklered" and if the council passes it, then that's the rule. Likely people would fight it and probably win, but that's what government is all about. Sounds like you need sprinklers or get prepared for a lengthy appeals process.
 
mailtruck said:
NFPA Codes, NFPA 13

Wisconsin DSPS Codes: 2013 Wisconsin Act 270.
(g) Additions. Remodeled Buildings and Change of Use. All existing public buildings or places of employment, and all additions shalI conform to this section, as follows: 1. More than 50% remodeled or added. If more than 50% of the gross area of a building is remodeled and/or added, the entire building shall comply with the requirements of this section. 3. The percentage of a building remodeled or added from the date of passage of this Code shall be added together for each remodeling or addition to get the total percentages remodeled or added. 4. Any building with an existing sprinkler system, when making an addition, regardless of size or occupancy, will sprinkler the addition in accordance with National Fire Protection Association 13. 5. If the use of an existing building is changed to a new use, it shall comply with all aspects of this Code.

Municipal Code 5.10.
Additions, Remodeled Buildings and Change of Use. All existing public buildings or places of employment, and all additions shall conform to this section, as follows:
  1. More than 50% remodeled or added. If more than 50% of the gross area of a building is remodeled and/or added, the entire building shall comply with the requirements of this section.
  2. If additions to a principal building combine to meet or exceed the limits set forth in Section 5.10(16)(b), the building shall comply with all aspects of this Code.
  3. The percentage of a building remodeled or added from the date of passage of this Code shall be added together for each remodeling or addition to get the total percentages remodeled or added.
  4. Any building with an existing sprinkler system, when making an addition, regardless of size or occupancy, will sprinkler the addition in accordance with National Fire Protection Association 13.
  5. If the use of an existing building is changed to a new use, it shall comply with all aspects of this Code
Click to expand...



That does not say much....


So does part of the building have a fire sprinkler system already???
 
mtlogcabin said:
If you are strictly an M occupancy then #4 should be the only reason a sprinkler maybe required based on the size of your building

[F] 903.2.7 Group M.
An automatic sprinkler system shall be provided throughout buildings containing a Group M occupancy where one of the following conditions exists:

1. A Group M fire area exceeds 12,000 square feet (1115 m2).

2. A Group M fire area is located more than three stories above grade plane.

3. The combined area of all Group M fire areas on all floors, including any mezzanines, exceeds 24,000 square feet (2230 m2).

4. A Group M occupancy used for the display and sale of upholstered furniture or mattresses exceeds 5,000 square feet (464 m2).
Click to expand...
Currently a B occupancy in the 3500 sq ft space, wanting to use the adjacent 2000 sq ft space with pass through doors. Previous tenant was retail/service and could be considered M and be a possible change of use for that space. Before that it was a bank, definitely a B.
 
Something is missing.

Wisconsin is also under the IEBC existing building code.

Plus they do not have their codes online, so we can see the entire sections, of what you are citing.

I do not see how they are getting to a fire sprinkler system, with the wording you posted.


How big is the ENTIRE building you are in,, square feet?

One way to go is hire a code consultant to look at the code, your building, and what you want to do, to see if they agree,,,

Plus be the mouthpiece for you in front of the city.

Appears the money you give the consultant will help you save money.
 
Doesn't seem like it should take a consultant, but sometimes that's what it takes.
 
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