Stairs using an adjacent wall as guards - how big a gap?

[steveray]

What stands out about things like the gap is that anyone would advocate to keep it.

Because we are way more concerned about being sued than doing what is "right" if it not specifically addressed in code....I would nudge the hell out of them to not do it, but I wouldn't take it to the wall.....If there were a designer I would insist that they were approving it on their license and ethics before I would touch it....

 

[steveray]

You have until 1/10/2025 to get something in for the 2027 IRC....But you will have to wait for the 2030 IBC as that process has ended for submissions unless somehow you could get it in a comment....

 

[bill1952]

If there was a kick plate/tie board or if treads were mortised in a stringer, would you feel different about it? Still not a guard meeting 4" or so sphere rule, but seems to greatly diminish the "stepping into it" hazard.

 

[ICE]

Because we are way more concerned about being sued than doing what is "right"

You mention lawsuits quite often so I assume you have been sued often. I have never been involved with a suit against the County and trust me, I have stepped out there on some shaky branches. Of course you need to do what works for you. I tend to buck the system if I am convinced that it's the "right" thing to do.

 

[steveray]

You mention lawsuits quite often so I assume you have been sued often. I have never been involved with a suit against the County and trust me, I have stepped out there on some shaky branches. Of course you need to do what works for you. I tend to buck the system if I am convinced that it's the "right" thing to do.

I've seen my share but have not been the defendant yet....Like I said...I'll push, but not to the extent that it will put me in front of the bus.....You are way more likely to end up in court here for asking for too much than you are for being incompetent...Ignorance truly is bliss....

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

I was sued while at my previous department (along with the boss, the mayor, the zoning enforcement officer, and I think a couple of other town officials). The lawsuit was ultimately dismissed before it even went to trial, largely because I had documented everything with code sections and the plaintiff's case largely consisted of "Yeah, but I'm spayshul, I shouldn't have to follow those silly codes they're yammering about." Plus, pre-COVID we had a joint annual, all-day training seminar presented by the chief prosecutor for code enforcement matters from the state attorney's office, and every year she hammered into us that, "If you don't have a citation, you don't have a violation."

I haven't been named in any lawsuits at the current department, but the department and the current boss have. It's not fun. The boss loses a lot of sleep due to worries about the lawsuit, and I lost a lot of sleep over the one in which I was named.

 

[tbz]

In as much as I never include code sections it would be just another correction on a correction slip. Most likely one of several on that correction slip. If asked about it I would point out the hazard. There's something about the way I go about it that people seldom ask for a code section and it's seldom that I write a correction that I can't back up with a code section. To be honest about this, I would not hesitate to write the correction with the conviction that Shirley there's a code for this situation.... and if not there should be.

What stands out about things like the gap is that anyone would advocate to keep it.

If you don't have a code section to cite that holds water, you don't have a code violation.

The last time I checked it was a minimum code, and there are plenty of questionable designs put down on paper and built.

However, the last time i checked, code says when you have a open sided walking surface end, there then needs to be a guard, and guards shall not allow a 4-sphere to pass.

To say I don't like and not cite a section my hold water some of the time, but it does not make it correct.

As to the condition, we would pass on the project if asked to install the stair flight with the gap like that, but that is a choice.

 

[ICE]

If you don't have a code section to cite that holds water, you don't have a code violation.

I would not argue otherwise. Sometimes you just have to take the bull by the horns.

 

[Penguin87]

The best I could tell was yes, use the 4" number.

Our inspector had a little ball he tries to fit in the gaps to check compliance.