Stamping for modifications to existing drawings?

[blugosi]

I have a request from a contractor working in Europe on a project for upgrades on buildings funded by the US Federal Government. NFPA / IBC / UFC apply on these buildings.

In some buildings the owner has asked for minor modifications to existing Fire Alarm / Sprinkler Systems, for example relocate a manual alarm button closer to a door, addition or removal of a smoke detector, recabling of a detector, addition or removal of a sprinkler etc.

Documentation stamped by a licensed P.E. for the existing Fire Protection Systems is not available, just drawings drafted by others further to a survey by local technicians.

I am being asked to sign and stamp those drawings after I confirm that the specific modifications comply with the applicable Codes and Standards. Would that be acceptable if I make a note on each drawing that my signature applies to the specific modifications e.g. removal of sprinkler or relocation of a manual push button marked with a revision cloud?

Or would my stamp suggest that I assume responsibility for the whole design?

Such practices are not common in Europe, but I am being told that this is acceptable by P.E.s licensed in the USA.

Is that true?

 

[TheCommish]

Stamp what you feel comfortable with and only what you have done.

Who is goin to proved the final controlled construction certification?

 

[fatboy]

If those came across my desk with your stamp on them, I would be inclined to believe you are signing off on the overall design.

Kind of like a homeowner stating they did the electrical and plumbing work when really their cousin did it. I have always advised they were taking responsibility for the entire job.

JMHO

 

[blugosi]

Stamp what you feel comfortable with and only what you have done.

Who is goin to proved the final controlled construction certification?

This is not clear. Possibly I will visit the site , and witness commissioning of say the fire alarm panel, but this would not mean that I have gone through the entire system, checked the cabling, checked proper siting of detectors etc. How could I sign a certificate for one detector only?

 

[blugosi]

Stamp what you feel comfortable with and only what you have done.

Who is goin to proved the final controlled construction certification?

This is not clear. Possibly I will visit the site , and witness commissioning of say the fire alarm panel, but this would not mean that I have gone through the entire system, checked the cabling, checked proper siting of detectors etc. How could I sign just for one detector ?

 

[Mark K]

There is precedence in the US for when you are responsible for a portion of the work on a drawing for the architect or engineer to indicate the extent of his involvement. Only stamping that portion.

Since it is funded by US government do local regulators have jurisdiction? Since it is not located in any US state no licensing laws apply. Licensing in the US is a state not federal function . There is no federal licensing of architects and engineers. Thus what is required is a purely contractual issue. What does the contract say? Does US law apply or does the law of the foreign country?

Why would the contractor need your stamp? He needs to have it clearly defined what he contracted for and what has changed. High likelihood the contractor is confused

 

[blugosi]

There is precedence in the US for when you are responsible for a portion of the work on a drawing for the architect or engineer to indicate the extent of his involvement. Only stamping that portion.

Since it is funded by US government do local regulators have jurisdiction? Since it is not located in any US state no licensing laws apply. Licensing in the US is a state not federal function . There is no federal licensing of architects and engineers. Thus what is required is a purely contractual issue. What does the contract say? Does US law apply or does the law of the foreign country?

Why would the contractor need your stamp? He needs to have it clearly defined what he contracted for and what has changed. High likelihood the contractor is confused

This is DoD site. For all such projects around the world there is what they call "Unified Facilities Criteria (UFC)".
These UFC documents specify IBC/NFPA C&S as a minimum, they add specific requirements depending on the facility type , and require a Qualified Fire Protection Engineer to sign and stamp Fire Alarm, Sprinklers, Pumps-Tanks and Life Safety plans. He is also required to certify that systems have been properly commissioned and have been installed according to the Design. These requirements are being specified in the Bill Of Works of each project.

Now, if I had an existing set of plans, calculations, technical descriptions and all signed by another P.E. when the systems had been installed, I would consider signing the modifications only. But now there are no documents certifying proper design and proper installation commissioning.

 

[tmurray]

We've accepted (and appreciate) comments from the stamping professional on what their stamp extends to.

 

[MtnArch]

You should also check with your E&O provider - they may not cover this and you could be open to the liability without any protection.

 

[Mark K]

You should also check with your E&O provider - they may not cover this and you could be open to the liability without any protection.

The word certify has special liability implications.