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Storage building HVAC

Bryant

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Dec 19, 2018
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Have a S1 use, 13994 square ft., sprinklered (gets it over 903.2.9 15 VCC) and is a PEMB (metal storage facility).
The contractor wants to condition the PEMB (climate control) and is using 2 HVAC single zones to conditon the space and afford protecion from freezing of the sprinlker system.
The problem insofar as the energy code requirements of 2015 VECC/IECC 403.2 & following sections as mandatory, is all the doors are rolled up and are accessible only from the exterior. Don't have the R value of the OHD's but I'm sure it is alot less than what is required for the thermal envelope as called out in table 402.1.3.

In my mind this would be difficult to maintian a conditoned space when roll up doors are wide open and losing all the energy in the building to the outside. Most have burglar wiring several above the stalls, so anything ,everywhere will follow the pressure out the door. I think designating a low energy building would be the way to achieve compliance, otherwise how could it be maintained?
Thoughts anyone.

Thanks in advance
Bryant
 

cda

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The fire sprinkler requirement is maintain pipe to 40 F.

Not into energy, but if that is the only reason for the heaters, does that make a difference.

With the thought, that if it is freezing outside, the doors will not stay open long??
 

steveray

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Dock doors are required to have dock seals....There is no requirement for OH doors to auto close....Just like all of the other doors....If they can't make the U factor with the OH doors, a variance or low energy might be the only other alternatives...
 

Bryant

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Virginia
@cda, yes for sprinkler unless a drive type of system. It is directed towards the energy code in this situation.
@steveray, agree. Not dock doors for sure. My thought was the same, a modification or call it a low energy building.
Thanks
 

e hilton

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Add heat tracing to the sprinkler pipes. It will cost a whole lot less in monthly utility bills than running the heating system. And it puts the heat right where its needed.
 

Bryant

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Wanted to bounce this one off the wall. if the heating and cooling loads were under the threshold of 3.4 btu/hr. for a conditioned space. Would you consider it a low energy building and move on provided no other codes are affected ?
There are two scenarios that play out. One, the storage facilities that open from the outside only vs. the true interior climate controlled "conditioned space". Not trying to reinvent the wheel here, but the latter is never going to qualify for a conditioned space with little or no control over running the AC full blast because several renters have all the roll up doors wide open for hours upon end. Hardly the condition for this space to be called conditioned.
 

steveray

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C402.1.1 Low-energy buildings. The following lowenergy
buildings, or portions thereof separated from the
remainder of the building by building thermal envelope
assemblies complying with this section, shall be exempt
from the building thermal envelope provisions of Section
C402.
1. Those with a peak design rate of energy usage less than
3.4 Btu/h · ft2 (10.7 W/m2) or 1.0 watt per square foot
(10.7 W/m2) of floor area for space conditioning purposes.

Sure.....But without all of the details, the Separated may get you...
 

cda

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Once again,,,
The only Reason you are heating the building,,,

Is to protect the fire sprinkler piping??

Seems like that should help
 

steveray

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Once again,,,
The only Reason you are heating the building,,,

Is to protect the fire sprinkler piping??

Seems like that should help

Not really...IECC doesn't care why you are wasting energy...If you could call the heating part of a process, you could get a pass...In other words, not a "building system" or equipment...

C101.2 Scope. This code applies to commercial buildings and the buildings’ sites and associated systems and equipment.
 

Bryant

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Virginia
I hate to beat this one up, but it is becoming problematic in the sense, no two storage facilities seem to comply collectively in the energy code, let alone other requirements of the codes. One that comes to mind often is the language in 903.2.9 VCC/IBC. exemption #5 is always the kicker. I wont dive into that, it of itself is a subject.
the question is, how can one show compliancy for a low energy building if the occupants and or stuff lets say, needs condition space. Does the building envelope matter in this scenario? By definition conditioned space is inside of the thermal barrier and yet a low energy building may not need to meet the thermal/air barrier requirements of chapter 4 of the IECC?
The point is, the contractor can not gain compliance with any other method and yet to call it a low energy building to afford some protection i.e. sprinkler system, possible storage goods that need to maintain a temperature above freezing and any thing other than a conditioned space for occupation, yet here it is, everything normally would work, but the energy wasted does not justify even calling it a low energy building in the cusp of building designs. One analogy the code makes to discern a low energy building, is a green house. Some green houses are hotter than others and zones vary so one size does not fit all in my opinion.
So, does the designer show failure to get below 3.4 BTU/Hr and say it is a low energy building using a unitary HVAC package designed at the low end and inside the thermal/air barrier and call it a day?
Stuck between hot & cold
thanks in advance
 

Bryant

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Duh why didn’t we think of that!!!
Thinking that the reaction time for the water to actually get to the most remote head could be problematic, if seconds and minutes are at play.
The real kicker here with the whole unconditioned space/low energy building is, it is permissible to design the equipment to function at 3.4btu/hr. ASHRAE 90.1 I believe sets the low energy building at 5 btu/hr. And does not have to meet the thermal barrier requirements...
 

cda

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Thinking that the reaction time for the water to actually get to the most remote head could be problematic, if seconds and minutes are at play.
The real kicker here with the whole unconditioned space/low energy building is, it is permissible to design the equipment to function at 3.4btu/hr. ASHRAE 90.1 I believe sets the low energy building at 5 btu/hr. And does not have to meet the thermal barrier requirements...


Normally 60 seconds or less, to get water to the sprinkler, and system compensates for it.
 

Bryant

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Messages
114
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Virginia
Normally 60 seconds or less, to get water to the sprinkler, and system compensates for it.
I'm lazy today working on an apartment building project. Is there a code section in NFPA13 calling out reaction timing? Some of these storage facilities are extremely long and I would think splitting in half to overcome the timing. The other part is, it is expensive to do. I think the real problem is in the IBC/VCC 903.2.9 #5. Always a crusher in these types of unprotected storage buildings...
 

cda

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Water delivery time is not a problem.

If you put the dry pipe supply and valve in a small closet by itself, that is the only area you need to keep heated.




8.2.3.2
System size shall be such that initial water is discharged from the system test connection in not more than 60 seconds, starting at the normal air pressure on the system and at the time of fully opened inspection test connection.
Paragraph 8.2.3.2 provides the general requirement that all dry pipe systems, except those protecting dwelling units, must deliver water to the inspector’s test connection within 60 seconds from the time the inspector’s test connection is fully opened. Specific allowances for small dry pipe systems are addressed in 8.2.3.3 and 8.2.3.4. This allowance exempts smaller systems from the 60-second requirement. The user must be aware of other code requirements, such as those found in NFPA 72®, National Fire Alarm and Signaling Code®, in regard to maximum time from the initial flow indication to the required reporting from the central station to the fire department. The time of water delivery is measured from the time at which the inspector’s test connection is fully opened to the time at which there is initial water discharge from the inspector’s test connection. Initial water delivery is not to be confused with the initial expelling of condensation that might have built up in the system, but it is also not the intent of 8.2.3.2 to require a steady stream of water flowing from the inspector’s test connection before concluding the time measurement.
8.2.3.3
A system size of not more than 500 gal (1900 L) shall be permitted without a quick-opening device and shall not be required to meet any specific water delivery requirement to the inspection test connection.
8.2.3.4
A system size of not more than 750 gal (2850 L) shall be permitted with a quick-opening device and shall not be required to meet any specific water delivery requirement to the inspection test connection.
 
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