• Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades

Support For Bathtub

gbhammer

Platinum Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
1,279
Location
Mid West
ICE said:
How about fat Yolanda and her king size water bed? We're talking some pounds now. I had a case where there was a shower pan built that lasted about six months and leaked. This was a redevelopment project. There was a meeting at city hall where I met the owner for the first time, all 600 pounds of him. When a new contractor came to the counter to get a permit I told him that his best bet would be to put a foundation under the shower pan or it will fail again. I was summoned to the city managers office and asked: "Are you calling the citizens fat?" I said, "Well yes, yes I am."
I say you should hire him.

gbhammer said:
I thought we all agreed that the tied off over weight inspector was going to lean on the rail, and if it didn’t collapse it passed.
Papio Bldg Dept said:
Yep, we draw straws for the week, shortest straw gets Monday, next Tuesday, and so on through-out the week. Any guard rail inspections that come up on your day, you have to lean on the rail. Wednesday's are my day in the barrell.
 

Papio Bldg Dept

Platinum Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
1,415
Location
Papillion
don't forget displacement...right there you start losing Frank's 42 gallons.

kyhowey said:
If Frank is correct with the 42 gallons to overflow and water weighs 8.34 lbs/gallon. That gives us a max of 350lbs. for the water alone. If the standard tub covers 12.5 sq. ft., that gives us a live load of 28 psf. Floor has to be designed for 40psf minimum. Add a 150 pound person would equal 40psf. Then throw some actual logic into the conversation....my kids are the only ones to in my house that take a bath. We don't even have a tub in our master. It's doubtful a person will ever fill the tub to the overflow line and then climb in. The other this is this only matters if the floor joist is at max span. We're talking basic, minimum code.

I'm really only watching this if there is a large, two-person jet tub in the master bathroom.
 

gbhammer

Platinum Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
1,279
Location
Mid West
Papio Bldg Dept said:
gb...are you suggesting that inspectors are fat with code?
Sitting at this desk for most of seven years, and playing darts in bars instead of working in the field has made me less than fit. Field work as an inspector at least here in our department must have a similar affect to sitting a desk because our guys are all pushing the limits on their belts loops. As a contractor I always had some muscle mass 6'2" 210 lbs. For the last 5 years I have been leveled off at 280. So yes I think I can safely say inspectors are fat with or with out code.
 

Rio

Silver Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
224
ICE said:
How about fat Yolanda and her king size water bed? We're talking some pounds now. I had a case where there was a shower pan built that lasted about six months and leaked. This was a redevelopment project. There was a meeting at city hall where I met the owner for the first time, all 600 pounds of him. When a new contractor came to the counter to get a permit I told him that his best bet would be to put a foundation under the shower pan or it will fail again. I was summoned to the city managers office and asked: "Are you calling the citizens fat?" I said, "Well yes, yes I am."
One of the engineers I work with used to be a plan checker and told me about a phone call he got one time from a concerned tenant regarding a water bed on a second floor. My friend explained that waterbeds are obviously quite heavy and that a certain amount of deflection could be expected, depending on a number of factors. Before he could start explaining what these factors were he was interrupted by the tenant saying, 'Okay, I see it', referring to the sagging floor! He managed to get the garden hose connected and the bed drained before the floor collapsed.

 

gbhammer

Platinum Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
1,279
Location
Mid West
Rio said:
One of the engineers I work with used to be a plan checker and told me about a phone call he got one time from a concerned tenant regarding a water bed on a second floor. My friend explained that waterbeds are obviously quite heavy and that a certain amount of deflection could be expected, depending on a number of factors. Before he could start explaining what these factors were he was interrupted by the tenant saying, 'Okay, I see it', referring to the sagging floor! He managed to get the garden hose connected and the bed drained before the floor collapsed.
See when that place was framed a six hundred pound inspector would have found out the floor joist were inadequate during the rough in.
 

GBrackins

Registered User
Joined
Nov 11, 2009
Messages
454
Location
Fairhaven, Massachusetts
either that or every building department should hire a 600 pound gorilla! besides, they'll work for bananas. And they would be great in a best ball golf tournament! after some of the exchanges lately on the forum it's nice to see some humor.
 

Sandman

Bronze Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2010
Messages
50
Location
San Diego, CA
My point is not to argue for or against the additional joist under a bathtub. I have been directly involved in the design, construction and inspection of over 3,000 residential units in the last few years and none of them had an additional joist under any of the upstairs bathtubs and, so far, we have not had any warranty issues. However, I would never make the argument that because "I have been doing this for X amount of years or have built X amount of units without incident" we do not need to consider what is recommended by the American Wood Council in the Wood Frame Construction Manual which is in fact referenced in the International Building Code. In the event a floor system failed due to loads in and around a bathtub the statement, "I have been doing this for X amount of years or have built X amount of units" doesn't mean anything. Instead, the designer and builder need to be prepared to argue that the building was designed and built at or above the minimum. And, finally, how many people in this forum weigh just 150 lbs? My guess is that the average weight will be closer to 200 lbs and all the literature suggests we are getting bigger, not smaller.
 

Big Mac

Gold Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
563
Yeah, a couple of times. OK, that might be a bit of an exageration but...............
 

Min&Max

Silver Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2009
Messages
321
Location
Nebraska
I think someone alluded to this before but I would be more concerned---and I am not at all concerned---about the actual floor sheathing/decking supporting the weight of the tub and its contents, especially if the tub is cast iron. The last cast iron tub I looked at had several supports located on the bottom of the tub floor which would appear to have the potential to dent or puncture the 5/8" - 3/4" osb or plywood floor. I wonder if it is possible that companies such as Koehler, Eljer and American Standard have any smart engineers who account for the weight of their product and its future contents on standard code compliant products and floor assemblies?
 

Mark K

Platinum Member
Joined
May 12, 2010
Messages
2,133
You are not compelled to design based on your perception of the weights of the occupants. The code only requires the building be designed to support the loads listed in the code. If this were not the case one might suggest that all residential projects be designed for 100 psf since you could have a party where everybody is sholder to sholder.
 

Papio Bldg Dept

Platinum Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
1,415
Location
Papillion
GBrackins said:
either that or every building department should hire a 600 pound gorilla! besides, they'll work for bananas. And they would be great in a best ball golf tournament! after some of the exchanges lately on the forum it's nice to see some humor.
Can you teach Gorillas how to play darts? I would prefer orangutans...then they can write "any which way but loose" for their guard rail comments.

Have you visited the Palaearctic–African Bird Migration Forum, a Discussion of the Palaearctic-African Songbird Migration traffic across the Sahara...and other things? It could probably use a few more posts every week in my opinion.
 

Architect1281

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
782
Location
Foster, Rhode Island, United States
Oh ICE Magnificent one you are correct...

May your lips never freeze to your margharettia.

The correct answer from the sealed mayonaise jar on Funk and Wagnells front porch is.

Multiple design loading conditions based on time;

7 day loading, 30 day loading, and long term 100% loading................

7day and 30 day would calculate ot at somewhat reduced load factors...

those would be for live loads like fill / empty tubs and snow in moderated climates -

the calculation adjusts the Fb bending stress in parallel grain wood fiber b increasin that number to 115% 115%

and in some wind cals to 133% and as this is in the denominator of the fractional calc it is an increas in capacity.

The water bed would be a load that could and should not be reduced - same for filled spa pool type tubs - not drained

the water mattress 6 to 9 inc weighs 32 to 45 pounds per foot all the time well above the code 30 lbs LL/SF (15 sheets of 1/2 in gyp??)

so the typ res loads do not account for them. Sales people of such devices say the place the same load as a refrigerator. to which I reply Good try filling your bedroom with refrigerators.

Other items that designers (RDP or not) should consider are Kitchen Islands on large size tile floor with stone countertops.

The code lets them build and us approve the "Worst Possible"

Carnac divines the answer:

Siss Boom Baah!!!

Question??

What souds does an exploding sheep make????
 

Architect1281

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2009
Messages
782
Location
Foster, Rhode Island, United States
There are also table sections that provide 20 PSF DL and those are more conservative and applicable to the island and some larger tubs.

as the reviewer IF proper plans address built in or increase load areas then we have something to review and advise..

otherwise we with experience can stand back and say here is where the stress (permanent deformations) vracks will appear.
 

jim baird

Silver Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
490
Location
Comer, GA
ICE said:
A couple bags of sackcrete under the tub was popular in a lot of places I've worked. They left it in the bag and the ambient moisture would be enough to get it to set up.
A plumber I knew would put down a sheet of plastic and dump a bucket of drywall joint compound on it to bed a tub.
 

ICE

Moderator
Joined
Jun 23, 2011
Messages
10,422
Location
Ca. concrete jungle
jim baird said:
A plumber I knew would put down a sheet of plastic and dump a bucket of drywall joint compound on it to bed a tub.
Mortar and joint compound crumble too easily. Sackcrete has rocks that will poke a hole. Tapioca pudding costs too much (well the good stuff with the large pearls).
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Top