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Survey towards 20%?

Mr. Inspector

Mr. Inspector

SAWHORSE
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
4,695
Location
Poconos/eastern PA
Minimal alterations for a old "B" building. Looks like an old mansion. Nothing accessible. Needs at least 20% towards the accessible route. There is an accessible parking spot at a building on the same site about 1/4 mile away. Township won't allow more parking spaces on site. In order for the architect to give me an accessible route site plan (required by the state) the route to the accessible parking space needs to be surveyed. The surveying will cost more than the 20% of the whole job.

Can the surveying itself count as the 20% towards the accessible route?
 
IMHO
It should be part of the construction cost but not counted as a part of the 20%
Just like plans are a part of the costs.
 
Playing the devil's advocate again:

I would say that if the cost of surveying exceeds 20% of the overall cost of construction, the building owner can use the survey to say, "I have spent my 20% for this phase of construction to determine technical feasibility. Now I am done with spending money towards ADA until the NEXT phase of construction. Furthermore, the survey illustrates that it is technically infeasible to comply. On top of that, the associated cost of providing an accessible route between parking and the building entrance (unless the governmental boneheads allow new parking in front of the building) would be $1 million - or more than 20% of the overall budget."

More realistically, a 4' wide side walk that extends the 1/4 mile between the parking lot and the building entrance would be $32,000. And I am always surprised at how little money surveyor's charge for their work. But I think you get my point.
 
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While I do understand Mark Handler & BayPointArchitect view, IMO, building plans are required to get a permit which include accessible route. Without the required plans a review & permit can not be issued, its part of the cost to do business not part of a physical improvement.
 
"Township won't allow more parking spaces on site."
Appeal that decision. If you lose get the township's mandate in writing from the legal people. Then spend a few dollars on trick landscape. The plan being that you chose to remove a barrier to a more rewarding day for people with disabilities.

How about re-striping what is there and creating a blue stall.

"There is an accessible parking spot at a building on the same site about 1/4 mile away."
So what? You would consider that a reasonable accommodation? Where did this survey requirement come from? What would a survey tell you that a Smart Level would miss?
 
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Nothing in the code tells you where to spend the 20%. Unless there is a local or state requirement to spend the 20% on the parking space and the accessible route to the building like in my state you can spend it elsewhere within the building. Spend it on lever door knobs, hand rails extensions, door threshold changes A drinking fountain or any number of other things on a small remodel.
 
Keystone said:
While I do understand Mark Handler & BayPointArchitect view, IMO, building plans are required to get a permit which include accessible route. Without the required plans a review & permit can not be issued, its part of the cost to do business not part of a physical improvement.
Click to expand...
I never said it is part of the physical improvement. It is however a part of Development/construction costs to the owner.
 
It is not all about wheelchair access

Even though the township will not allow additional parking is there a vehicular way to the building?
will one of the exceptions apply to your project?

Exception: Other than in buildings or facilities containing or serving Type B units, an accessible route shall not be required between site arrival points and the building or facility entrance if the only means of access between them is a vehicular way not providing for pedestrian access.

1104.2 Within a site.
At least one accessible route shall connect accessible buildings, accessible facilities, accessible elements and accessible spaces that are on the same site.

Exception: An accessible route is not required between accessible buildings, accessible facilities, accessible elements and accessible spaces that have, as the only means of access between them, a vehicular way not providing for pedestrian access.
 
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20 years not 30 and it should be the property owners responsibility for parking and accessible route into the building not the tenant. JMHO
 
Picky, picky....Thought it was 1990? 26yrs?....I don't care who pays for it, agree it should be the responsibility of the owner, but that should be in the lease for an informed tenant and owner...
 
The code says "The cost of providing the accessible route are not required to exceed 20% of the costs of the alterations affecting the area of primary function". It does not say just the cost of construction.

Also in the commentary one sentence on it says: "It is not the intent to exempt for accessibility when the total cost for providing the accessible route exceeds the 20% threshold".

It looks to me that the code is referring to the total cost, including design costs for both the proposed work and the work towards the accessible route.

Please let me have your opinion.
 
Severay, in PA we are required to have a stamped plan of the accessible route. The architect won't sign it unless it is surveyed.

ADAguy. If also counting the cost of the design for the alteration they are doing (not counting the accessible route) it could make them do more towards the accessible route.

I think if they want to count the design cost for the accessible route they also should count the design cost for the alterations.
 
You can handle it any way you want, but the survey will not "improve" anything and that is the intent of the code section. That would be kind of like me putting in a pool and lift at a hotel and then claiming the value of the pool for my accessible improvements...Maybe a bad analogy, but best I could do on short notice...
 
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