Third party inspections

[ICE]

Ice, I am not offended by your posts. I love them.
I am conveying personal experiance, The arrogance is what I had.
I also did mot realize the way I was coming across.
I, in conveying the code, came across in an arrogant manor.
I have tried to tamper my arrogance.
I now realize that many, that think they know the code, know some, not all.
just conveying this to give a little insight.

Thanks for clarifying Mark.
Here is a structural observation from today. None of the electrical, plumbing or mechanical work has been started. Anchor bolts are missing or with 1" washers. None of the windows were in.....so I told them that I'm sorry but a framing inspection is out of the question.




A lot of work went into installing radiant barrier wrong. There's also a ridge supported by the ceiling joists....which is not much of a problem with this application.


I asked about the dark band at the bottom of the plywood and was shown a correction slip that instructed them to do that with wood preservative.



There is screen on all of the windows to keep out birds. There are no garage doors and no screens at the garage door openings. I could here pigeons in the attic.

 

[mark handler]

"No deficiencies observed" famous last words.
When in court, "I must have missed that"
I do not trust third party inspectors.

 

[JCraver]

I believe that it is unreasonable if not impossible to expect that a single inspector can have in depth knowledge of multiple codes. Even if the inspector has read every code in depth the lack of academic training makes it difficult to understand the intent of the code. I also believe that the typical time allocated for the inspectors to perform inspections is inadequate to do a thorough job. Being placed in this impossible situation does not excuse some of the defensive behavior I have seen.

You win. I've been here ~4-1/2 years and I think that's the most offensive thing I've seen anyone say on this board yet. Congrats!

Because I don't have an engineering degree I can't read words that are written in plain English and interpret their meanings? And I can't complete an inspection in a time I deem appropriate if you don't think I've been there long enough?

I've re-typed this part about a thousand times and can't get it done so it results in me not getting banned, so I'm just gonna' say you can take that opinion and .............................................................................

 

[mtlogcabin]

Just change the word from inspector to engineer and the same is true. No single person should be expected to have an in depth knowledge of multiple codes.
It is impossible.

 

[ADAguy]

Good dialogue gang, long overdue. Keep the faith or buildings fall down

 

[ICE]

Just change the word from inspector to engineer and the same is true. No single person should be expected to have an in depth knowledge of multiple codes.
It is impossible.

I know more than a few inspectors that possess an in depth knowledge of building, electrical, mechanical and the lesser code, plumbing. Then there's the rest of them.

 

[JCraver]

We all do. Except for one of us, who has apparently never met an inspector who knows anything. I think there's a bunch of them on this very board.

The argument here, now, is that if you don't have a bunch of letters after your signature you're not "qualified" to offer comments to someone who does. And that's a load of ........................................................................

 

[SCBO1]

No single person should be expected to have an in depth knowledge of multiple codes.
It is impossible.

I agree

 

[SCBO1]

I do not trust third party inspectors.

I'm pretty sure some on here feel the same way.


Like I said in the OP, the new builder is paying for his engineer to do the inspection, maybe he's had issues with other municipalities not doing timely inspections. I don't have a problem "doing my job!" inspecting the footing at all, that was not the issue here.

Doing one's job should be having an open mind and listening to different ideas, the codes are changed every three years because some one's listening and acting!

Appreciate the comments, at least most of them.

 

[ADAguy]

We all do. Except for one of us, who has apparently never met an inspector who knows anything. I think there's a bunch of them on this very board.

The argument here, now, is that if you don't have a bunch of letters after your signature you're not "qualified" to offer comments to someone who does. And that's a load of ........................................................................

Easy does it, in every profession you have 10's and 1's.

 

[ICE]

Just change the word from inspector to engineer and the same is true. No single person should be expected to have an in depth knowledge of multiple codes.
It is impossible.

Do the inspectors that you work with specialize in individual codes?

 

[conarb]

"No deficiencies observed" famous last words.
When in court, "I must have missed that"
I do not trust third party inspectors.

I do not trust any government employee, in 2003 I was remodeling a home I built in 1977 and the owner pleaded with me not to get a permit, he didn't want any civil servants on his property, I agreed with him that civil servants were rotten people but that building inspectors were the best of them, that I would personally walk right with the inspector while in the home. This in the paper yesterday:

OAKLAND — A former city building inspector accused of taking thousands of dollars in bribes and other payments from people whose properties he was inspecting could get slapped with a million-dollar-plus fine.

Thomas Espinosa took $2,700 in bribes from people whose buildings he was inspecting and failed to disclose to the city that he received more than $300,000 for contracting work and other work from people whose properties he was inspecting, according to a report from investigators for the city’s Public Ethics Commission.

The report alleges Espinosa — who worked for the city from 2005 to 2016 — committed 47 ethics violations. The maximum penalty for all those violations — which include accepting bribes, misusing public money and using city authority to coerce — totals $1,151,737. Investigators will present their report Nov. 5 to the commission, which could decide then whether to pursue fining Espinosa.

This is the Public Ethics Commission’s largest case based on the number of alleged violations and penalty amount, executive director Whitney Barazoto told this news organization. She confirmed that the commission has passed along its findings to law enforcement.

Efforts to reach Espinosa were unsuccessful.

The investigation began in October 2016, after Espinosa stopped working for the city. Documents obtained through a public records request and posted on the city’s website show Espinosa resigned in August 2016 after being issued a notice of termination.

The report details his interactions with landlords, a real estate agent and property owners during his last few years on the job.¹

With Special Inspections being what they are I see no reason for city inspections any more, as one customer asked me: "Why all these levels of inspection?" As I started to explain the need for continuous inspection the German Structural Engineer chimed in saying: "In Europe all inspectors must have welding certificates". So he asked me what was wrong with our inspectors? I told him our inspectors didn't even have to have college degrees, he couldn't believe that he's paying all of this money for inspectors without even a degree.

¹ https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2018/1...g-inspector-took-bribes-undisclosed-payments/

 

[mtlogcabin]

No we are all multi-disciplined, they are 7 of us, each one has one or more areas we specialize in.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

Conarb do you stereotype all groups, races, nationalities or just public employees? Don't forget the military and the president are public employees.

 

[Mark K]

My mistake was in saying that inspectors have an impossible job.

I did not say that inspectors were not intelligent although I suggested that they might be ignorant of some facts. It should be noted that no individual is capable of knowing everything unless they are God.

By the way not all knowledge is contained in the building code.

Yes engineers are human too, but that should not be used as an excuse not to consider the truth of what I have said.

 

[JCraver]

Just change the word from inspector to engineer and the same is true. No single person should be expected to have an in depth knowledge of multiple codes.
It is impossible.

I agree

I don't get this. Like, I can't understand it at all and it makes no sense to me. There are several regular posters right here on this thread, let alone the whole site, that have an "in-depth" knowledge of the codes. There's a whole group of people out there in the world who call themselves "code nerds" or some such (just go to an ABM, most of them will be there). I'll freely admit I'm not one, but these people certainly exist. And striving to have an "in-depth" knowledge of the codes should be the goal of almost all of us, especially the engineers, the multi-discipline inspectors, and the one-man shops. If those fella's don't have an "in-depth" knowledge or are not working to acquire one, they're doing their employers a disservice.

Maybe that's a bit idealistic, but you (hopefully) get my point..

 

[ADAguy]

Point taken, there is no limit to learning; to cease to do so is to die.
We architects are on a constant search for knowledge and how to apply it, aren't "we" MH?
Cause and its effects have consequences for which we are responsible.
Inspectors are expected to be our eyes and ears in the field; I am grateful for "most" of them.

 

[steveray]

For a single inspector (or engineer or architect) to know everything about all of the codes is impossible. The good ones know what they they don't know and strive to learn/ look up/ ask questions on the rest. Us "public sector" folks are at least relieved of trying to turn a profit and thereby cutting corners to do so (what I see of third parties), and then it just comes down to personal ethics and departmental staffing. Or, how much customer service does your municipality want to provide.....

 

[ICE]

As much as I might know, I am constantly learning new stuff. I'll see a mistake that I haven't seen before, a new product or a new fix to an old problem. Except for one inspector that works in my office, you guys are correct in that nobody can know it all. The key for me is recognizing that what I am looking at is important enough to send me.....The run of the mill inspections that I perform lead me to believe that it's just not that difficult to know all that you need to know in four or five disciplines. .....what with Plumbing being one of them.....and then there's Energy.

Some of the statements that have been made about inspectors have some truth. Over the top remarks like “most inspectors.......unreasonable” are wrong. Had it said “some inspectors........unreasonable” it would be correct.

I have done this for a long time. The things I’ve witnessed us doing are outlandish. So strange that I can’t reveal in public. The slandering and general disrespect that I get from the public is for the collective body of inspectors where I toil. Being a member of that group has earned a portion disgust.

I don’t expect to get that disgust here.