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Those darn pizza ovens
- Thread starter cda
- Start date
MechinspMi
Member
Anybody watch the conference playoffs this past weekend? The Domino's commercial to be exact. If you noticed the conveyor pizza oven had suppression nozzels on both ends at each opening the way its required to be installed.
Vern
Vern
Convenience store owner wants to install one of these convection pizza things.
He brought his vendor's rep with him. In response to my query about exhaust, suppression, and need for them to document their claim that they didn't need no stinkin' hood, I was e-mailed a letter from an engineer at the manufacturer, who blew lots of smoke but did not make much clear sense.
He quoted testing by 3rd party to EPA 202, and testing to UL197, but also included two references to local AHJ being able to make the call.
I am not convinced that EPA 202 data helps resolve anything. My research found a UL710 that refers to "recirculating" equipment that nonetheless contains automatic fire suppression and grease filtering.
I have already been led down this or that garden path by corporate smoke blowers who appear to enjoy preying on smaller AHJ's where the experience with variety of equipment is more limited.
My reply to their e-mail explaining what I haven't seen has yet to be answered. Letters from engineers, I have found, can be as cagey and deceptive as anything from a lawyer.
He brought his vendor's rep with him. In response to my query about exhaust, suppression, and need for them to document their claim that they didn't need no stinkin' hood, I was e-mailed a letter from an engineer at the manufacturer, who blew lots of smoke but did not make much clear sense.
He quoted testing by 3rd party to EPA 202, and testing to UL197, but also included two references to local AHJ being able to make the call.
I am not convinced that EPA 202 data helps resolve anything. My research found a UL710 that refers to "recirculating" equipment that nonetheless contains automatic fire suppression and grease filtering.
I have already been led down this or that garden path by corporate smoke blowers who appear to enjoy preying on smaller AHJ's where the experience with variety of equipment is more limited.
My reply to their e-mail explaining what I haven't seen has yet to be answered. Letters from engineers, I have found, can be as cagey and deceptive as anything from a lawyer.
MechinspMi
Member
Jim, check the 2009 IMC 507.2.2. It now contains verbage that excludes the use of a hood & suppression under the info he has given you. The EPA 202 test is referred to in NFPA 96 with electric UL 197 listed equipment. Personally I don't like it but thats what was written into the 2009 version.jim baird said:
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
Jim
2009
507.2.2 Type II hoods.
Type II hoods shall be installed above dishwashers and light-duty appliances that produce heat or moisture and do not produce grease or smoke,Will it produce grease or smoke? Most do. except where the heat and moisture loads from such appliances are incorporated into the HVAC system design or into the design of a separate removal system. Did the HVAC contractor acount for the extra load Type II hoods shall be installed above all light-duty appliances that produce products of combustion and do not produce grease or smoke. Will it produce grease or smoke? Most do. Spaces containing cooking appliances that do not require Type II hoods shall be ventilated in accordance with Section 403.3. For the purpose of determining the floor area required to be ventilated, each individual appliance that is not required to be installed under a Type II hood shall be considered as occupying not less than 100 square feet (9.3 m2).
2009
507.2.2 Type II hoods.
Type II hoods shall be installed above dishwashers and light-duty appliances that produce heat or moisture and do not produce grease or smoke,Will it produce grease or smoke? Most do. except where the heat and moisture loads from such appliances are incorporated into the HVAC system design or into the design of a separate removal system. Did the HVAC contractor acount for the extra load Type II hoods shall be installed above all light-duty appliances that produce products of combustion and do not produce grease or smoke. Will it produce grease or smoke? Most do. Spaces containing cooking appliances that do not require Type II hoods shall be ventilated in accordance with Section 403.3. For the purpose of determining the floor area required to be ventilated, each individual appliance that is not required to be installed under a Type II hood shall be considered as occupying not less than 100 square feet (9.3 m2).
Thanks for the replies.
We are still on '06 codes here in GA. My query to the vendor for better, more specific or clarifying info re the equipment was met with no info. He said all he does is deliver it and plug it in, and the approval is totally up to me. Plus he told his customer that only one AHJ in the state (GA has 159 counties) had required any more than standing the unit on the floor and plugging it in.
Funny how some think that less cooperation yields better results.
We are still on '06 codes here in GA. My query to the vendor for better, more specific or clarifying info re the equipment was met with no info. He said all he does is deliver it and plug it in, and the approval is totally up to me. Plus he told his customer that only one AHJ in the state (GA has 159 counties) had required any more than standing the unit on the floor and plugging it in.
Funny how some think that less cooperation yields better results.
I do not have access to UL 710, but my understanding is that refers to the self-contained fryers such as Giles, Crispy Lite (Wells Mfg), Perfect Fry and Auto Fry build. All of the self-contained units I have seen do have fire systems. Giles is the only brand I have seen with a gas supply.
The electric ovens I have seen do not require venting outside, a fire system or fuel shut offs. But, I have seen only a few new ovens, and usually any instructions are gone before I see them.
The electric ovens I have seen do not require venting outside, a fire system or fuel shut offs. But, I have seen only a few new ovens, and usually any instructions are gone before I see them.
cda,
I think the answer to your last questions may be yes. They have as yet not even identified model number or any identifying info.
A health dept inspector I know says that brand of little oven does not require the business that installs it to go through food service licensing. It is categorized as "food sales" and is regulated by state ag dept. Go figure.
I think the answer to your last questions may be yes. They have as yet not even identified model number or any identifying info.
A health dept inspector I know says that brand of little oven does not require the business that installs it to go through food service licensing. It is categorized as "food sales" and is regulated by state ag dept. Go figure.
Finally got info from manufacturer, and just off phone with manufacturer's engineer who wrote spec sheet for equip., last updated on 1/18/11.
Sheet says ventilation recommended, but not required. Engineer says he prefers type II with a kosher filter, but design and install of venting is up to venting contractor.
The guy who sells the oven (open both ends "light duty finishing oven", which actually meets exception #3 of IMC'06 507.2.2), only knows that it is for sale if you want to buy one (he just delivers it and plugs it in the wall), and the code guy has to decide what if anything to do about venting. Also have some clearance figures etc.
Sheet says ventilation recommended, but not required. Engineer says he prefers type II with a kosher filter, but design and install of venting is up to venting contractor.
The guy who sells the oven (open both ends "light duty finishing oven", which actually meets exception #3 of IMC'06 507.2.2), only knows that it is for sale if you want to buy one (he just delivers it and plugs it in the wall), and the code guy has to decide what if anything to do about venting. Also have some clearance figures etc.
FredK
Gold Member
The old leave it up to the AHJ thing. Would prefer they say it needs/not need ventilation, if not then they need it here.jim baird said:
north star
Sawhorse
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
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I gotta ask, what is a kosher filter? :?:* * * *