Thoughts On This

[steveray]

FWIW, I am seeing a tremendous loss of documents due to the almost overnight transition to the electronic platform so many AHJ's moved to during/after COVID. It seems a lot of documents were supposed to be migrated into the new systems but weren't, and every day that goes by the people that are supposed to know what happened to them are lost.

A lot of people are destroying evidence because they can get away with it....

 

[ICE]

In many cases, no documents exist or can be found that show in any way how or why something was approved.

Sometimes you have to go with a gut feeling. Longevity can be a plus or a minus.

 

[BN4537]

I’m an electrical plans examiner/ inspector for a municipality. For context, this is the only location I’ve held this position so not much to compare it to; I still think our records are trash. Addressing is a mess and doesn’t match information on the property appraisers website (I still can’t wrap my head around that). Nothing in our system links properly, especially when it comes to information that transferred from our previous system (we had trakit and switched to IMS) so I can’t find all the associated permits when I search by parcel or by address because of slight variations in how the address was written before or if there are unit numbers involved make them not link. Everyone is aware of this issue so it’s not just my ineptitude - I’ve asked and investigated but nothing so far.

All of that to say that every time I’ve tried to figure out if something was permitted or not, I couldn’t confidently come to a conclusion. So what then?

For example, change of occupancy/ alteration level 3 (Florida). Multi tenant building, used to be Sears. 2 of the bottom floor tenant spaces were demolished to create a larger tenant space (no permit). A stop work order was posted but they kept working anyway - a lot has been done and a lot is new, contrary to what is clearly written on the plans as existing to remain, that the occupancy is the same, alteration level 2, etc. Not a good start.

A site visit soon followed at which point the following was observed: The service is supplied from a utility vault on the first floor that supplies switchgear on the second floor. 2000A, 480/277V. Multiple tenants and house loads are supplied from that switchgear, from separate breakers. They avoided showing me the room at first - probably because the lights didn’t work and the door was unlocked and open to only one of the tenants. In order to gain access to the service equipment, the building manager had to call the tenant to let us in. During the follow up visit (still no issued permit), the building manager figured out how to access the space from a stairway. A padlock was placed on the door - not a code compliant door for the space given the equipment (like listed panic hardware). They got the lights on in the room and actually labeled the breakers by tenant. They do not have GFPE documentation, nor any Arc energy reduction stuff, nor fault study. None of the tenants have access to their own service disconnecting means and building management is not continuous, fire department does not have a key to room either. Most of the ~ 12 panels in the proposed remodel space look pretty new but square d stuff always looks pretty new to me. Not finding permits that would’ve covered that electrical scope since it changed from a sears to commercial multitenant; they could’ve installed some of this right after the stop work order - how could I know?

I’d love to know how you guys would approach this from an existing building code perspective and any other comments you might have. This is the first beast of its kind for me.

First, any time anyone issues a stop work order on WWOP, they need to go through and take pictures everywhere they possibly can so that they know later - you need to prepare to go to court for the worst case scenario from the get-go. Take pictures like you'll never get into this building without a warrant again. I don't blame people too much for missing this when they are new, it's kinda something that is learned the hard way, if at all. And you can't always rely on someone else if they are the ones that issued the order.

Failing that, you get in at your earliest possible time and:

(1) Find everything that is so dangerous that it has to be fixed per 302.1 of the IEBC. Document everything.

(2) Find everything that you can prove is new and needs to be fixed per new code. Look for manufacture dates on equipment, wiring, piping, etc. Can't always find a date, but you can grill people over the ones you find and try to get admissions on stuff that doesn't. Document everything.

(3) Anything you can't prove... pretty much let it go. Make deals where you can to get the best outcome, but ultimately you can't take someone to court if you can't prove the details of who installed what when. Document everything.

Did I mention "Document everything"?

That's what I do.

 

[ICE]

The debris pile in the front yard contained two bathrooms and a kitchen. A crew was at lunch in the garage which was a carport that was converted to a garage. The owner was called and he ordered me off the property. The correction slip stated that a bunch of permits were required, including the garage as it was as sloppy a conversion as I had ever seen. The owner came to the office to obtain the permits. While he waited for approval for a new garage, he tore down the converted carport. It was then discovered that the carport was converted with a permit.

The owner sued the County because there was an order to obtain a permit when there was a permit and that was the proximate cause to tear it down. I contended that the order was to obtain a permit for the existing garage but it was such an eyesore that the owner opted to start over with a new garage. The load of pictures that I took of the converted carport told the story.

 

[warmer]

That's what I do.

Thank you BN!

 

[tmurray]

In many cases, no documents exist or can be found that show in any way how or why something was approved. A lot has been lost over the years, or never provided. Many times the only document that is kept is a C of O, or an original application. The C of O is held out as the proof that the previous occupancy was "legal". When I ask them to demonstrate how the previous, and then the proposed occupancy meets code the phones really get a workout.

FWIW, I am seeing a tremendous loss of documents due to the almost overnight transition to the electronic platform so many AHJ's moved to during/after COVID. It seems a lot of documents were supposed to be migrated into the new systems but weren't, and every day that goes by the people that are supposed to know what happened to them are lost. I have one like this right now. They are stupefied that we can't provide the historic documents, and while I don't think that is my responsibility, I too am surprised so many are gone. Then again, so many AHJ's operate with no established document retention policy I guess I shouldn't be.

I transitioned a department from almost entirely paper to entirely digital. It took 10 years. Yes most of the time was digitizing the old paper records.

It's challenging, but it needs to be a priority for the department. If it's not a priority it won't get done and the records end up getting lost.