TI Comment/Question

[Alias]

Or, The Saga Of The USFS Building continues.......

I went by the site today to check on the progress of the erection of the building. The iron for the shell building is in place, no siding or roofing panels are up, third party testing on bolts has not been performed. I noticed that one of the local plumbers was there doing layout for the plumbing. I talked to him and advised him that there isn't a permit for the TI to date. He informed me that the owner had contacted him last week and wanted him to start on the plumbing this week. He also apologized to me. I told him layout was okay at this point, no digging allowed as the plans weren't back from plan check yet and he was using a 'not for construction' set of plans. ops

Plans for the TI were submitted about a month ago and sent out for plan check. The plans are back with the clients' engineers and are being revised. No revisions are needed for the plumbing (except maybe add/remove shower) or slab. Asst. DPW and myself talked to the designer today about a couple issues, including where they are with the plan revisions. We are looking at June 22 +/- for a complete approved set of plans.

I would like your feedback on whether you would allow the plumbing and slab to proceed prior to having a full set of approved plans. I pointed out to Asst. DPW that at this stage the City is on the hook for the full plan check fee of $5583.53 and that I could think of no way to break out the slab and plumbing at this stage of the permit process and pay the fees already incurred. I am not willing to issue a permit without a completed plan check and all fees paid in full.

Anybody else have/had a similar situation? How did you handle it?

Asst. DPW is calling for a meeting tomorrow. His issue is with the fact that curb and gutter was installed without an encroachment permit last week. He found out today that their engineer wasn't even consulted so, if it isn't done correctly, it must be removed and replaced to meet code.

Sue......where the west still lives.................

 

[mtlogcabin]

No revisions are needed for the plumbing (except maybe add/remove shower) or slab.

I would have no problem issuing a permit to the plumber for the underslab work only

It is pretty much standard around here that a shell permit includes the underslab work by all the subs.

We also allow all the excavation and placement of steel prior to a permit and concrete placement. The contractors understand they are proceeding at their own risk and associated cost if changes are needed in order to approve the plans.

third party testing on bolts has not been performed

That can be done prior to covering the connections. There isn't a specific time frame for having this done that I am aware of.

 

[north star]

= + =

IMO, I would most definitely ask for the fees up front and

not allow the plumbing to move forward.....Typically [ here

anyway ], when the plumbing goes in to the ground it is;

"for all intents & purposes", permanently installed!

It sounds as though they are continuing to roll right along

without your approval & blessings.....Maybe I have missed

something in all of this......If they are allowed to continue

doing "what they want, when they want", ...why should

they stop?

+ = +

 

[Alias]

Thank you! That is what I am feeling. "We're good ol' boys & we'll just do whatever we please! To h$ll with state & local building codes."

Off to meet with Tweedledee & Tweedledum.

Sue

= + =IMO, I would most definitely ask for the fees up front and

not allow the plumbing to move forward.....Typically [ here

anyway ], when the plumbing goes in to the ground it is;

"for all intents & purposes, permanently installed!

It sounds as though they are continuing to roll right along

without your approval & blessings.....Maybe I have missed

something in all of this......If they are allowed to continue

doing "what they want, when they want", ...why should

they stop?

+ = +

 

[Daddy-0-]

Go get em Sue. You must establish the way the job will go from day one. Time for what I call the "come to Jesus meeting." if you don't get them the message now it could be a long project. Good luck.

 

[fatboy]

I'm also thinking that they need to play by the same rules as locals, otherwise you will never have any cooperation on this project...........JMHO

 

[TheCommish]

I am not familiar with the abbreviation "TI" can you explain please?

 

[mjesse]

I am not familiar with the abbreviation "TI" can you explain please?

Tenant Improvement, or interior build-out

 

[codeworks]

sounds like where I am. I write a stop order when I see work withoput a permit, regardless of the what s permitted on the rest of the job. the contractors cry, act like they don't know the rules, a bunch of yaahooos!

 

[Papio Bldg Dept]

I would have no problem issuing a permit to the plumber for the underslab work onlyIt is pretty much standard around here that a shell permit includes the underslab work by all the subs.

We also allow all the excavation and placement of steel prior to a permit and concrete placement. The contractors understand they are proceeding at their own risk and associated cost if changes are needed in order to approve the plans.

That can be done prior to covering the connections. There isn't a specific time frame for having this done that I am aware of.

This is typical for our area as well.

For our AHJ, if the under-slab plumbing is not indicated on the approved drawings for the shell, then a separate permit or an amendment to the shell permit is required to continue work.

If you are indeed getting the Good Ole boy/girl treatment, I would have no problem setting the tone by letting them know the rules of the game from here on out. Good luck.

 

[Alias]

I'm also thinking that they need to play by the same rules as locals, otherwise you will never have any cooperation on this project...........JMHO

They are all locals................building and plumbing contractors are playing by the rules, it is the owner and his minion ("non-contractor contractor") that are causing all the confusion, headaches, heartburn, ad nauseum. The mayor is buying their crap more or less that I am holding up the project as he doesn't understand my job. :banghd

Sue

 

[Alias]

Go get em Sue. You must establish the way the job will go from day one. Time for what I call the "come to Jesus meeting." if you don't get them the message now it could be a long project. Good luck.

Daddy-O -

I have been trying since day 1, August 5, 2011, and it just keeps getting worse........:banghd It doesn't help that Tweedledee & Tweedledum keep crying to the mayor that I'm holding the project up. Mayor doesn't 'get" what my job is and leans their way.

This is the last large piece of the project. Only thing left is the communications tower and signs.

I am sooooo ready for this :censored USFS building to be done, finished, finaled!!!!

Sue

 

[Alias]

I would have no problem issuing a permit to the plumber for the underslab work onlyIt is pretty much standard around here that a shell permit includes the underslab work by all the subs.

Their shell permit was for the metal building only.

Plumbing, electrical, mechanical, slab, and interior work are all on the TI plans and submitted as a package and all fees based on the package. The plans have been sent out to a third party for plan check and the city has been billed for the fees. As such, I see no way to break out just the plumbing portion of the plans.

Sue

 

[mtlogcabin]

Their shell permit was for the metal building only. Plumbing, electrical, mechanical, slab, and interior work are all on the TI plans and submitted as a package and all fees based on the package. The plans have been sent out to a third party for plan check and the city has been billed for the fees. As such, I see no way to break out just the plumbing portion of the plans.

Sue

Mayor doesn't 'get" what my job is and leans their way.

Does the Mayor understand they owe the city money? You are willing to "work" with the plumber to allow the underslab to go in but the owner needs to follow through with their resposibilities like pay the fees and get the documentation needed for changes/review.

We just spent a year on a project where the owner would spend money like water to try and get what he wanted but I did have the backing of the city manager and attorney. Made a big difference with the inspectors moral and the way they reacted to the various "problems" we encountered with this project

Keep doing what you are doing and never let it become personal

 

[brudgers]

My two cents: Let the plumber proceed at his own risk. No inspections until there is a permit and demolition will be required to uncover anything which gets covered without an inspection.

 

[TheCommish]

Tenant Improvement, or interior build-out

ahh up my way we call them tenant fitout

 

[Alias]

My two cents: Let the plumber proceed at his own risk. No inspections until there is a permit and demolition will be required to uncover anything which gets covered without an inspection.

That is where I'm at at this point. Plumber and I had a long talk today and he sees some minor changes that need to be done. I told him to get a hold of the engineer/designer and get change orders. He will be doing it I hope.

Sue

 

[ICE]

It's just plumbing. Not much to get excited about. Go ahead and give them inspections. What's the worst that can happen....they dig it up?

 

[Alias]

Does the Mayor understand they owe the city money? You are willing to "work" with the plumber to allow the underslab to go in but the owner needs to follow through with their resposibilities like pay the fees and get the documentation needed for changes/review.We just spent a year on a project where the owner would spend money like water to try and get what he wanted but I did have the backing of the city manager and attorney. Made a big difference with the inspectors moral and the way they reacted to the various "problems" we encountered with this project

Keep doing what you are doing and never let it become personal

I told everyone (mayor included) at the meeting yesterday that the city was on the hook for the plan check fees to the tune of $5583.53 whether they complete the project or not as no fees had been collected to date. Tweedledee & Tweedledum vociferously stated that the project would be finished. They offered to pay the plan check fees today. I waited around for them today, told the gals in the front office to let me know when they came in. They hadn't shown up by the time that I left at 3 PM this afternoon. I am just flat tired of the half-truths.

It is also hard to not get irate when Tweedledum calls me "Dear" in a very smarmy voice. I want to punch him right between the eyes! :devil

Sue, trying to be the better person......................... :censored them!

 

[ICE]

I want to punch him right between the eyes! :devil

Go ahead. You're a girl. Try not to hurt you hand. Better yet, use a (broom) stick. Stomp on his foot real hard first....that'll catch him by surprise.

 

[steveray]

We have done some "proceed at your own risk" stuff and it hasn't been too bad yet.....biggest problem we have had lately with shell and TI permits is drinking fountains and service sinks.....they seem to be on nones plans.....

 

[pwood]

Go ahead. You're a girl. Try not to hurt you hand. Better yet, use a (broom) stick. Stomp on his foot real hard first....that'll catch him by surprise.

I told everyone (mayor included) at the meeting yesterday that the city was on the hook for the plan check fees to the tune of $5583.53 whether they complete the project or not as no fees had been collected to date. Tweedledee & Tweedledum vociferously stated that the project would be finished. They offered to pay the plan check fees today. I waited around for them today, told the gals in the front office to let me know when they came in. They hadn't shown up by the time that I left at 3 PM this afternoon. I am just flat tired of the half-truths. It is also hard to not get irate when Tweedledum calls me "Dear" in a very smarmy voice. I want to punch him right between the eyes! :devil

Sue, trying to be the better person......................... :censored them!

sue,

you probably carry pepper spray for those awkward critter encounters, so give him a shot between the eyes and call it an unfortunate accidental discharge!:mrgreen:

 

[Alias]

sue, you probably carry pepper spray for those awkward critter encounters, so give him a shot between the eyes and call it an unfortunate accidental discharge!:mrgreen:

No pepper spray for me, and no concealed carry permit so, he is safe from those. Now that extension ladder I've loaded on the back of my truck........:devil

Sue

 

[Big Mac]

Why would you review plans without the proper fees being paid. Why would you permit work to be done without the proper permits in hand. NO tickie, no laundry.