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Townhome Accessibility Catch-22

M

Matt Jones

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Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
45
Location
Greenville, SC
I have a bit of a catch-22 on a townhome project. Originally, the townhomes in question were designed as "elevator-ready" with temporary floors and stacked closets. Now, the developer has asked us to have them installed during construction on some units to make the buyers happy and to hit target move-in dates. The problem I am running into is that on the smallest unit plan, the elevator company is unable to accommodate a 34" door and the platform is also shy of 48", so we are not able to hit Type B unit standards. Where this gets to be a catch-22 for me (and I know codes don't always have to make sense...) is that the only thing making these IRC townhomes be Type B units is the interpretation is that we are providing a private lift... Not sure if anyone has run into this situation before, but if there's any thoughts and wisdom to be shared, I would appreciate it.
 
R320 puts us into compliance with R-3 IBC accessibility requirements. AHJ is using this (1108.6.3) along with 1108.7.2 to force us into compliance.

Should mention this is in SC (2021 IBC/IRC).
 
Exception?

R320.1​

Where there are four or more dwelling units or sleeping units in a single structure, the provisions of Chapter 11 of the International Building Code for Group R-3 shall apply.

Exception:Owner-occupied lodging houses with five or fewer guestrooms are not required to be accessible.
 
They are for-sale townhomes and are each 3-4 bedrooms with 4 or 5 units in a structure (from an ADA/FHA perspective). Doubt they would buy that at all, but if they did they could just come back and call each room a guest room and put us over the 5-guestroom cap.
 
I assume your project is located in South Carolina - - please confirm.
First get the C of O for the condos, so that they are now legally “existing buildings”.
Then submit each elevator for plan check under a new permit, as an alteration to an existing dwelling under the South Carolina Existing Building Code.
The elevators will not be considered, and will not trigger, an accessible path of travel. Instead, they are just mobility aids for the owner’s preference.

SCEBC:​

306.7.4 Type B Units​


Type B dwelling or sleeping units required by Section 1108 of the International Building Code are not required to be provided in existing buildings and facilities undergoing alterations where the work area is 50 percent or less of the aggregate area of the building.

Note, I have not researched whether this is a Fair Housing Act issue. You question was limited to dealing with the building department.

As far as hitting your target move-in date, you will have to get creative. Maybe get all the other alterations approved (shaft, pit, power, etc.) as a filed change under the current permit, build them, get C of O as soon as possible (before paint and finishes), start the plan check on the elevator. Finalize the elevator plan check and pull the new permit the day after C of O. That way, the only critical path is the elevator installer.
 
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Matt Jones said:
I have a bit of a catch-22 on a townhome project. Originally, the townhomes in question were designed as "elevator-ready" with temporary floors and stacked closets. Now, the developer has asked us to have them installed during construction on some units to make the buyers happy and to hit target move-in dates. The problem I am running into is that on the smallest unit plan, the elevator company is unable to accommodate a 34" door and the platform is also shy of 48", so we are not able to hit Type B unit standards. Where this gets to be a catch-22 for me (and I know codes don't always have to make sense...) is that the only thing making these IRC townhomes be Type B units is the interpretation is that we are providing a private lift... Not sure if anyone has run into this situation before, but if there's any thoughts and wisdom to be shared, I would appreciate it.
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Are you the architect? Sounds like the architect did not meet the standard of care. Owner asked for elevator ready and they are not.
 
Thanks, Yikes...that was my proposed solution, but the developer was not a fan. Just trying to make sure there's no loopholes in the interest of keeping him happy.
 
redeyedfly said:
Are you the architect? Sounds like the architect did not meet the standard of care. Owner asked for elevator ready and they are not.
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Elevator-ready does not have to meet the same dimensional standards as ANSI Type B requires, just what is required for residential elevators.
 
Matt Jones said:
Elevator-ready does not have to meet the same dimensional standards as ANSI Type B requires, just what is required for residential elevators.
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If you were directed to design the units to be elevator ready and they are geometrically unable to install elevator to meet code, you did not meet the standard of care. Type B units are required by code in SC if the elevator is installed and you must meet all the the requirements. What a bizarre argument that you only need to meet some of the requirements. You will lose the lawsuit for necessary rework if the developer pursues this.
 
redeyedfly said:
If you were directed to design the units to be elevator ready and they are geometrically unable to install elevator to meet code, you did not meet the standard of care. Type B units are required by code in SC if the elevator is installed and you must meet all the the requirements. What a bizarre argument that you only need to meet some of the requirements. You will lose the lawsuit for necessary rework if the developer pursues this.
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You said it yourself. IF the elevator is installed. Elevator-ready means the future buyer can choose to install the elevator, a condition where Type B does not apply. I am very much aware that if it is installed during construction now that it would need to meet code, hence the point of this thread and sussing out wisdom on any alternatives I was not aware of.

Frankly, your attitude and manner are distasteful and rude, so kindly refrain from further comments unless you have something constructive to add.
 
Yikes said:
I found the FHA requirements, and regardless of any workarounds with the building department, you are already on the hook (civil liability) for FHA compliance, just because the units were sold on the basis of being elevator-capable. See the HUD/DOJ joint statement Q&A #25-27 at: https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/JOINTSTATEMENT.PDF
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Interesting. I had not seen that statement before now. Appreciate you sharing even though I don't love the content.
 
Yeah, it's all about presenting/marketing the options. As a thought experiment:
  • If the condos were built without marketing the unit internal elevator option, then a few years later a condo owner hires their own contractor to install an elevator, it would not be fair to force the other condo owners to alter their units into FHA compliance. So the HUD/DOJ statement does not get triggered by the condo owner's actions.
  • But if the developer designed AND marketed the condo as elevator-capable from the start, that's when all the condos are still under control of a single entity (the developer), not multiple condo owners.
  • There is nothing to prevent a developer from designing stacking closets and pit-friendly foundations in non-covered-multifamily-dwellings. That's not what triggers the FHA. But once you present a future elevator as an option to the buyers, that's what puts you on the hook for FHA compliance.
Sorry to be the messenger of bad news!
 
Matt Jones said:
You said it yourself. IF the elevator is installed. Elevator-ready means the future buyer can choose to install the elevator, a condition where Type B does not apply. I am very much aware that if it is installed during construction now that it would need to meet code, hence the point of this thread and sussing out wisdom on any alternatives I was not aware of.

Frankly, your attitude and manner are distasteful and rude, so kindly refrain from further comments unless you have something constructive to add.
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Rude? No, you made a design error and are looking for something that will bail you out. There isn't one. My comments have been very constructive if you understand your liability for this.
They can't add them in the future either, they will not meet the ch. 11 requirements when they submit for permit. Definitely an FHA violation to add the elevator.

The owner hired you as a code expert and you did not deliver. Make sure you're up to date on you E&O premiums.
 
redeyedfly said:
They can't add them in the future either, they will not meet the ch. 11 requirements when they submit for permit. Definitely an FHA violation to add the elevator.
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Actually, I disagree. See my comment in post #11. The SCEBC allows alterations of up to 50% of a unit before it gets called a Type B unit.
Also, in post #19, at some point in the future an individual condo owner can alter their own already-occupied unit by adding their own elevator. It could be a reasonable accommodation / readily achievable barrier removal. However, the condo developer cannot offer it even as a future option without it triggering FHA compliance. The current building cannot make it elevator-capable, as defined by providing both a removable temporary floor for a future pit AND providing space for an overrun.

1731701141584.png

BTW, as a practicing architect, I can tell you that comments about E&O insurance triggers are unhelpful. We only have limited context in this particular situation. The OP did not even state that he is the design professional, or their representative. He could work for a construction manager, realtor, or a number of other people.
 
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Yikes said:
Actually, I disagree. See my comment in post #11. The SCEBC allows alterations of up to 50% of a unit before it gets called a Type B unit.
Also, in post #19, at some point in the future an individual condo owner can alter their own already-occupied unit by adding their own elevator. It could be a reasonable accommodation / readily achievable barrier removal. However, the condo developer cannot offer it even as a future option without it triggering FHA compliance. The current building cannot make it elevator-capable, as defined by providing both a removable temporary floor for a future pit AND providing space for an overrun.

View attachment 14684

BTW, as a practicing architect, I can tell you that comments about E&O insurance triggers are unhelpful. We only have limited context in this particular situation. The OP did not even state that he is the design professional, or their representative. He could work for a construction manager, realtor, or a number of other people.
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Why are you ignoring this sentence? It says that the whole unit is covered even if you don't install the elevator but you made preparations for it. It literally says there is no Catch 22.
1731708381060.png
I mention E&O because the correction is rework and would be a claim against their policy. If you want to charge money for your expertise, you need to know what you're doing. Developers talk to their lawyers daily. This is a clear breach of the standard of care, I doubt it would even go to court.
 
redeyedfly said:
Why are you ignoring this sentence? It says that the whole unit is covered even if you don't install the elevator but you made preparations for it. It literally says there is no Catch 22.
View attachment 14686
I mention E&O because the correction is rework and would be a claim against their policy. If you want to charge money for your expertise, you need to know what you're doing. Developers talk to their lawyers daily. This is a clear breach of the standard of care, I doubt it would even go to court.
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Let's clarify:
1. The original post that stated this thread was about the South Carolina Building Code. I demonstrated in an earlier post #11 how the developer could comply by first completing the project as-is. Then the elevator could be permitted separately under the South Carolina Existing Building Code without triggering Type B path of travel compliance. Please review that post and let me know if you disagree.
2. Separately from the building code question in the original post, I looked into the civil rights issues related to compliance with the Fair Housing Act, which is typically not enforced by local building departments. They have presented the buyers with an option to install elevators, which is triggering FHA compliance.
3. So, there is a way to comply with chapter 11, but there is not a way to comply with FHA Design Manual. My disagreement with you was specifically limited to SCBC chapter 11 compliance.
4. Errors and Omissions insurance is a specific type of professional liability insurance for design professionals. You are implying that the OP is the design professional. You also said to the OP "the owner hired you as a code expert" and "if you want to charge money for your expertise". I do not see anywhere (so far) that the OP claimed to be the designer of the project, or a design professional. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. Maybe he's been called in to fix someone else's mess.
In light of that, I do not see how it is helpful to presume that the OP is the one that has failed.
 
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