Training a newbie

[ICE]

Soon, I will be taking a novice inspector with me on inspections. 45 yr. old lady in good physical condition. She has BL, ME, PL certs. She started as a permit tech many years ago and has been a rehab inspector for 5 years. She is smart, motivated and a bundle of questions.

Along with teaching her about the code, I must teach her how to work safe.

How about residential electrical panels. I always remove dead-fronts taking care not to trip the main. Having her do it scares me just a little. Well maybe more than a little.

What are your jurisdiction's policies regarding this? Do you always open them? Never? Trip the main first? Require that someone be there to open it for you? How about various disconnects? Do you trip the feeder breaker first?

Ladders. Most policies state that all ladders shall be tied off. Not many are. Hardly ever on residential. My usual rule is that if it makes me uncomfortable, I won't climb it. I want to hear about how you handle it.

Any tips on training are welcome and safety procedures as well.

As an aside; I never touch anything that is conductive without first testing it with a non-contact voltage tester, not even a water heater or furnace and I wonder if other inspectors do the same.

I started doing this after I heard about a poco meter reader that was found dead next to an a/c condenser. The cond. had no equip. grnd. and it did have a short to grnd.

Thanks

 

[Darren Emery]

We never open a live panel. NEVER. Have an electrician there to do if for you.

The first thing I teach our new inspectors: assume every conducter you ever see is hot. Even if you know it is not. Treat it as deadly, cuz it just might be.

 

[Mule]

How about residential electrical panels. I always remove dead-fronts taking care not to trip the main. Having her do it scares me just a little. Well maybe more than a little.

What are your jurisdiction's policies regarding this? Do you always open them? Never? Trip the main first? Require that someone be there to open it for you? How about various disconnects? Do you trip the feeder breaker first?

We require a temporary electrical final and we perform a inspection of the internal installation prior to the panel being energized.

Ladders. Most policies state that all ladders shall be tied off. Not many are. Hardly ever on residential. My usual rule is that if it makes me uncomfortable, I won't climb it. I want to hear about how you handle it.

My usual rule is that if it makes me uncomfortable, I won't climb it.

Ours too!

Any tips on training are welcome and safety procedures as well.

I always teach to start in the garage and work in a counterclockwise, why counterclockwise...don't know, just what I've always done! That gives you a pattern of consistency and you know that you've covered everything. If you jump all over the house you may miss an area.

As an aside; I never touch anything that is conductive without first testing it with a non-contact voltage tester, not even a water heater or furnace and I wonder if other inspectors do the same.

I just start looking and feeling without testing.. not a good idea, just what I've done for...um...since 1984!

I started doing this after I heard about a poco meter reader that was found dead next to an a/c condenser. The cond. had no equip. grnd. and it did have a short to grnd.

Looks like I need to change my ways... however I do put the back of my hand up against anything that may be energized to keep me from "locking" on to anything.

Oh... I hate checklists. I think they make you become repetitious in looking at specific items and may cause you to miss the obvious screw up!

 

[FM William Burns]

Exceptional advice!

 

[NH09]

How about residential electrical panels. I always remove dead-fronts taking care not to trip the main. Having her do it scares me just a little. Well maybe more than a little.

What are your jurisdiction's policies regarding this? Do you always open them? Never? Trip the main first? Require that someone be there to open it for you? How about various disconnects? Do you trip the feeder breaker first?

If the electrician is not on site I will remove the panel front without switching off the main breaker. Not a bad policy to have the electrician there to do it for you.

Ladders. Most policies state that all ladders shall be tied off. Not many are. Hardly ever on residential. My usual rule is that if it makes me uncomfortable, I won't climb it. I want to hear about how you handle it.

I don't climb anything I don't feel comfortable with, I broke this rule a couple of months ago and almost fell - it's not worth it.

As an aside; I never touch anything that is conductive without first testing it with a non-contact voltage tester, not even a water heater or furnace and I wonder if other inspectors do the same.

Good policy, I learned the hard way on that one after checking some homeowners wiring, I always use a voltage tester now.

Good luck with your training, I would just let your trainee know that if they're not comfortable with something it's always OK to bring in another inspector to help.

 

[mtlogcabin]

After a couple of days we turn the newbie loose with a pad and pencil to write up what the see wrong and take pictures in a house. We then send our "seasoned" inspector to do the same later in the day. Back at the office they compare notes and pictures. We have found the it is a big learning curve for both. The newbie, because of the time spent in the code books brings up items the "seasoned" inspector wasn't aware of or has gotten "forgetfull" of. Either way they both learn.

We do not do electrical

We carry our own ladders

Crawl spaces are a concern as we have dropped down in them only to smell bleach or glues or other chemicals. Get out immediatley.

Wear ice cleats in the winter to prevent slip and falls.

Never go onto a roof that is moist or has frost on it.

 

[ICE]

How about residential electrical panels. I always remove dead-fronts taking care not to trip the main. Having her do it scares me just a little. Well maybe more than a little.What are your jurisdiction's policies regarding this? Do you always open them? Never? Trip the main first? Require that someone be there to open it for you? How about various disconnects? Do you trip the feeder breaker first?

We require a temporary electrical final and we perform a inspection of the internal installation prior to the panel being energized.

Doable enough on new construction but what about service upgrades? The h/o needs power while he's waiting for us and the poco. The poco here may be a week out after release from us. Our policy is that for release, the work must be complete. Not a screw left unscrewed.

Generally I see: New service is up and running. Jumper from existing poco connection and new weather-head. Oh I generally see a lot of corrections too.

At your temp. final, what stage is the work, is everything made up and ready to energize but it is not energized? Do you then release it and do a final after poco connection? Is it a jumper-ed arrangement?

Another ?: You are on up-grade inspection and you see other electrical violations. Stuff like exposed romex, missing light fixtures and no blank cover, funky aerial feeds to outbuildings, separated conduit, and all the other stuff you've seen. Do you write corrections? What is co. policy? Do the customers complain? {chuckles as he takes a slow pull on on a stubby cigar.}

 

[ICE]

Good luck with your training, I would just let your trainee know that if they're not comfortable with something it's always OK to bring in another inspector to help.

This is gonna be a ride.

 

[ICE]

After a couple of days we turn the newbie loose with a pad and pencil to write up what the see wrong and take pictures in a house. We then send our "seasoned" inspector to do the same later in the day. Back at the office they compare notes and pictures. We have found the it is a big learning curve for both. The newbie, because of the time spent in the code books brings up items the "seasoned" inspector wasn't aware of or has gotten "forgetfull" of. Either way they both learn.We do not do electrical

We carry our own ladders

Crawl spaces are a concern as we have dropped down in them only to smell bleach or glues or other chemicals. Get out immediatley.

Wear ice cleats in the winter to prevent slip and falls.

Never go onto a roof that is moist or has frost on it.

I seldom have a need to enter a crawl space. I've done it a handful of times. Here the crawls are belly crawls. Usually not much to see unless it's a footing or a bunch of building drain and copper. About the only thing that's going to get me crawling is the plaintive wail of an infant. For the things I need to see, I send a camera. A good camera and also a camera on a 21' wand. The pictures hit an I-Pad and I've got ya.

 

[ICE]

I don't climb anything I don't feel comfortable with, I broke this rule a couple of months ago and almost fell - it's not worth it.

Here's one for you. Half way up an extension ladder when it starts retracting, the clicks came too fast to react. When it got below eave height, it fell to the wall. Some dummy put a window in that wall. Ladder through the window.

 

[Mule]

How about residential electrical panels. I always remove dead-fronts taking care not to trip the main. Having her do it scares me just a little. Well maybe more than a little.What are your jurisdiction's policies regarding this? Do you always open them? Never? Trip the main first? Require that someone be there to open it for you? How about various disconnects? Do you trip the feeder breaker first?

How about residential electrical panels. I always remove dead-fronts taking care not to trip the main. Having her do it scares me just a little. Well maybe more than a little.What are your jurisdiction's policies regarding this? Do you always open them? Never? Trip the main first? Require that someone be there to open it for you? How about various disconnects? Do you trip the feeder breaker first?

We require a temporary electrical final and we perform a inspection of the internal installation prior to the panel being energized.

Doable enough on new construction but what about service upgrades? The h/o needs power while he's waiting for us and the poco. The poco here may be a week out after release from us. Our policy is that for release, the work must be complete. Not a screw left unscrewed.

Generally I see: New service is up and running. Jumper from existing poco connection and new weather-head. Oh I generally see a lot of corrections too.

On remodels the electrician is required to be there. I am not a licensed electrician nor do I want the responsibility if something goes wrong while removing the front. We do not open energized panels.

At your temp. final, what stage is the work, is everything made up and ready to energize but it is not energized? Do you then release it and do a final after poco connection? Is it a jumper-ed arrangement?

All of the work is completed, buttoned up and ready to go as if the homeowner were ready to occupy! Yes... ready to energize but it is not energized. The only thing left is that the front of the panel is left off. All the recept and switch covers are on. We remove various covers throughout the home to verify proper wiring at the recepts and switches. If all is well we release what we cal a Temporary Electrical Final to the poco. No power at all at this point. After the electrical is energized we will do a Final Electrical Inspection. We perform this inspection along with all the other trade inspections before issuing a CO. It helps being combination inspectors.

Another ?: You are on up-grade inspection and you see other electrical violations. Stuff like exposed romex, missing light fixtures and no blank cover, funky aerial feeds to outbuildings, separated conduit, and all the other stuff you've seen. Do you write corrections? What is co. policy? Do the customers complain? {chuckles as he takes a slow pull on on a stubby cigar.}

If we see items that are a life, health or safety risk we require compliance. We may not require ALL items to be repaired. A lot of it is determined on the severity of the violation. Say... you see exposed romex but it is not in an area that is likely to be damaged...no problem. We mention the fact that it needs attention. Now if there are exposed wires creating an immediate hazard.. fix it! Does this make sense?

 

[ICE]

If we see items that are a life, health or safety risk we require compliance. We may not require ALL items to be repaired. A lot of it is determined on the severity of the violation. Say... you see exposed romex but it is not in an area that is likely to be damaged...no problem. We mention the fact that it needs attention. Now if there are exposed wires creating an immediate hazard.. fix it! Does this make sense?

Perfect sense to me. Here's a picture just for you.

 

[Mule]

Hoooooooooooo Boy!

This picture looks like it came from the last jurisdiction I worked for!

At leat you don't have to worry about enough combustion air for the water heater!

 

[TimNY]

That looks like the house where they did the nice re-roofing job.

 

[Jobsaver]

Where does the water heater flue terminate?

 

[Mule]

Into the attic close to the return air plenum, that also get it's return air from the attic!

 

[FredK]

Think Mule covered most of them.

I liked to start in one room and walk around the walls then the next room. Easier to check one at a time. Here we wrote down what needed fixed then moved to the next. Otherwise you may forget item(s) if you wait until later.

Never do punch lists and walk away of you doing more than a few write ups.

If it's new home construction I like the super to be walking the job with me. I'll point out what's wrong and expect him to be checking future builds for those issues before I get there. Train the trainer. Make life easier.

If it's a large commercial, every time I was inspecting the sub requesting the inspection was walking the job along with the super. Small TI's were different.