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Trying to get a sewage permit.

Discussion in 'Sewage' started by adam, Apr 19, 2011.

  1. adam

    adam Member

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    I live in central pa and trying to figure out how I can get a permit to build a new home. My parents own 36 acres of ground and we have 3 different deeds to add up to those 36 acres. The piece of ground I want to build on and the only piece I really can has 2 mobile homes and 1 home on it. So I applied for a sewage permit thought no big deal well its turned out to be a totally mess. For me to even get a perk test they told me all of those homes on that deed have to be up to code. Well my parents baught that ground 26 years ago and they never messed with the sewage so I bet there not up to "Code". We could be looking at a lot of money to update those homes. I then thought of the idea of subdivision but they told me if i subdivide I still have to have those other homes tested. Does anyone have any ideas of anything I could do?
     
  2. Mark K

    Mark K Platinum Member

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    You need to find a local Architect or Engineer to help you sort this out because what you are reporting does not make sense.

    With rare execptions existing buildings are only required to be in conformance to the code in effect when they were originally permitted. You should be able to hire a private firm to perform the perk test whether or not the buildings are legal.
     
  3. JMORRISON

    JMORRISON Silver Member

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    Look into boundry line adjustment to move property lines so your "new" structure is located on one of the other parcels.
     
  4. adam

    adam Member

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    When I took my paper work to the township to apply for a sewage permit they contact the engineering firm for the township and when he called he explained to me that for him to come up he has to make sure those other 3 homes are up to code. We aren't even sure if the one has a septic tank or not never had any problems not really sure where the pipe is outside. But there has to be some way around this problem. What is this boundary line adjustment you are talking about what is that all about?
     
  5. RJJ

    RJJ Platinum Member

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    What Township are you located in. Chapter 25 of the state code regulates on site sewage. The AHJ must have a certified SEO, if not then it goes to DEP.
     
  6. adam

    adam Member

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    I live in Clearfield county, Beccaria twp. They have a SEO he is the one telling us about the other 3 homes having to be up to code. I would like to know more about the boundary line adjustment if anyone knows anything about that. Or if anyone has any other Ideas.
     
  7. mtlogcabin

    mtlogcabin Sawhorse

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    A boundary line adjustment AKA lot line adjustment is when a surveyor re-writes the legal description between two adjoining lots and relocates the line dividing those lots. The document is recorded and the lot lines (boundaries are moved) Some jurisdictions will want to review and oversee the relocation to make sure it does not create new problems such as setbacks or a lot line running through a existing building, or having your well and septic on a different lot than your house. Call a local surveyor they can advise you for your location.
     
  8. adam

    adam Member

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    Ok so we have one deed that has our current home on it and a couple mobile homes another has the one I want to build on then the 3rd is just a piece of ground that has a railroad bed we bought on it so what your saying is I could relocate the property line of the railroad piece to give me room to build my home?
     
  9. RJJ

    RJJ Platinum Member

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    In PA that would be a subdivision and that would trigger the need for a planning module which in turn, puts you back to the need for sewage. If the existing properties have functioning septic systems they don't need anything. If you subdivide the properties you are in a new game. You should get some professional help from a local civil engineer. This board can give you guidance but there are to many issue to be dealt with. Have the Seo give you chapter and verse for denial of a sewage permit. Then we will have fact to counter with.
     
  10. Architect1281

    Architect1281 Gold Member

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    File condo documents
     
  11. adam

    adam Member

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    I just looked in pa it says a "Lot line adjustment" is different from a "subdivision"
     
  12. Mule

    Mule Platinum Member

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    It wouldn't be a subdivision if you have the same number of lots would it? You would just be moving one property line to another location.
     
  13. RJJ

    RJJ Platinum Member

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    Yes! It would be considered a Subdivision. Minor but still a change with new deeds, Plans to be file with the county etc. If would also trigger planning Module review for sewage. One can ask for a waver, but if the SEO is pressing the issue I don't believe he would support one.
     
  14. RJJ

    RJJ Platinum Member

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    Adam: You have to look at the Municipality Planning code. MPC. This is the state law that all ahj's have to play by. It is the rule book so to speak.
     
  15. adam

    adam Member

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    ok I'll look into that and go from there
     
  16. RJJ

    RJJ Platinum Member

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    Adam: After a re look at your original post a few questions come up.

    Zoning: What is the zoning for the 36 ac parcel. If it is single family and one structure exist on each tax parcel then you need a new parcel to build on. That being said, if you have a tax parcel that is big enough to build on and it perks then the condition of the existing septic systems has no bearing. " unless one or all three are failing and discharging sewage." If they haven't been cited or do not display condition of failure the SEO has nothing to enforce. It is very clear in the regs.

    You should be able to find a copy of the MPC on line for a free read. Once you understand the law on lot line changes you will understand that most likely you will have to file a planning module with DEP.
     
  17. mn joe

    mn joe Silver Member

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    You guys are making this too complicated. Adam, you need to find out what the local township person meant when he/she said that the existing houses had to be "up to code".If that means that the septic systems must meet certain compliance criteria then ask to see the local ordinance or state rule that says so. I don't know the situation in PA but in MN the counties enforce the state septic rules by local ordinance. I wrote into our ordinance that all septic systems on a property must be in compliance before I will issue a building permit for any additional structures. When you say that you don't even know if the 1 house has a septic tank, but it never had any problems, that raises red flags all over the place. Where does the sewage go? In a lake? In a drainage ditch? I think that the local authority is properly looking out for the general public when requiring you to verify what you have.

    Joe
     
  18. Builder Bob

    Builder Bob Sawhorse

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    It sounds like from a person on the outside that, the three dwellings - mobile homes and all, are using a common septic tank and field line. This was not an uncommon practice when families would remain on or near the property they were born on.

    Any upgrades to a property will trigger the need to bring existing buildings up to code with each dwelling having it's own septic tank and field lines.

    Some of the old septic tanks were not much more than a barrell with holes drilled in it and set in a bed of gravel................

    Groundwater contamination is a major concern especially when other people are dependent upon wells for potable water....

    Adam speak to the local authority in a low key manner , keep the personnel feelings aside and speak in an intelligent manner - This person has a job to do and will be more willing to help if they feel like they aren't being on the defensive. Just rememeber, the information provided may not be what you want to hear but it has been passed into law by legistrators who are passing laws for the welfare and well-being of Pa Citizens.

    ( Now I gotta go brush my teeth to get that fowl taste out of my mouth......)
     
  19. pwood

    pwood Platinum Member

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    i'll pass on that dinner invitation.
     

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