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Type I hood used as a Type II

This is a great thread, thank you all, the comments have been super helpful. I think this is sort of related to our specific puzzle to solve. We've been looking close at Type 1 vs Type 2 hood requirements supporting panini grills and sandwich steamers. It appears that way back in the day (about twenty years ago) panini grills got popular at Panera and similar places, and were often out in the open on a counter and perhaps under Type 2 as extra vs minimum required. Fast forward to present, it appears due to (refreshed) fire code and mechanical code and health code details pretty much specify heat and moisture criteria for Type 2 - anything with potential smoke or miscible great goes right to Type 1 (albeit fire suppression not needed for panini grills). It look to me like ventilation and exhaust grey areas or gaps closed around panini grills. To solve the "small appliance" use case, it appears lighter duty Type 1 vent hood equipment with appropriate NFPA and UL and NSF certs fit this middle ground use case for panini grills can be purchased. This lighter duty Type 1 would include the customary grease filters but not be rated for deep frying use case. Sound about right? Thanks again!
 
Tristy said:
This is a great thread, thank you all, the comments have been super helpful. I think this is sort of related to our specific puzzle to solve. We've been looking close at Type 1 vs Type 2 hood requirements supporting panini grills and sandwich steamers. It appears that way back in the day (about twenty years ago) panini grills got popular at Panera and similar places, and were often out in the open on a counter and perhaps under Type 2 as extra vs minimum required. Fast forward to present, it appears due to (refreshed) fire code and mechanical code and health code details pretty much specify heat and moisture criteria for Type 2 - anything with potential smoke or miscible great goes right to Type 1 (albeit fire suppression not needed for panini grills). It look to me like ventilation and exhaust grey areas or gaps closed around panini grills. To solve the "small appliance" use case, it appears lighter duty Type 1 vent hood equipment with appropriate NFPA and UL and NSF certs fit this middle ground use case for panini grills can be purchased. This lighter duty Type 1 would include the customary grease filters but not be rated for deep frying use case. Sound about right? Thanks again!
Click to expand...
- grease
 
Any labels that identify it as a Type 1 hood should be removed if the hood and exhaust system don't meet Type 1 requirements. Otherwise a few years down the road the next tenant will assume the system is Type 1 and install fryers and other appliances that put off a lot of grease under it.
 
Is there an argument here for a Type II hood? Perhaps. Have you ever been inside one of those restaurants that uses panini grills to toast sandwiches, and looked at the ceiling above the panini grills where no hood was installed above these cooking appliances? The ceiling was layered in a dark film. Can't say how long it took to get that way, but I can say that I have pictures of one such restaurant, but finding them would be a real chore :) IMO, there is no such thing as a "lighter duty Type 1 vent hood" (okay, steveray's UL 710B version could be considered somewhat lighter duty, but still requires all the bells and whistles, and is limited to the cooking appliance within its listing). UL 710B versions still have grease filters and fire suppression.
 
This is the exception I was speaking of:

507.2 Type I hoods. Type I hoods shall be installed where
cooking appliances produce grease or smoke as a result of
the cooking process. Type I hoods shall be installed over
medium-duty, heavy-duty and extra-heavy-duty cooking
appliances.
Exception: A Type I hood shall not be required for an
electric cooking appliance where an approved testing
agency provides documentation that the appliance effluent
contains 5 mg/m3 or less of grease when tested at an
exhaust flow rate of 500 cfm (0.236 m3/s) in accordance
with UL 710B.
 
rgrace said:
Is there an argument here for a Type II hood? Perhaps. Have you ever been inside one of those restaurants that uses panini grills to toast sandwiches, and looked at the ceiling above the panini grills where no hood was installed above these cooking appliances? The ceiling was layered in a dark film. Can't say how long it took to get that way, but I can say that I have pictures of one such restaurant, but finding them would be a real chore :) IMO, there is no such thing as a "lighter duty Type 1 vent hood" (okay, steveray's UL 710B version could be considered somewhat lighter duty, but still requires all the bells and whistles, and is limited to the cooking appliance within its listing). UL 710B versions still have grease filters and fire suppression.
Click to expand...
When I suggested "lighter duty" I think it boils down to not needing the fires suppression level of cost and ongoing inspection. Not gauge of metal, lacking of appropriate ductwork, lack of integrated controls and tempered MAU unit, or less rated exhaust fan. Poor choice of words, but I'm thinking light duty cooking appliances don't need the same engineered systems as deep fryers, woks, flame broilers
 
steveray said:
This is the exception I was speaking of:

507.2 Type I hoods. Type I hoods shall be installed where
cooking appliances produce grease or smoke as a result of
the cooking process. Type I hoods shall be installed over
medium-duty, heavy-duty and extra-heavy-duty cooking
appliances.
Exception: A Type I hood shall not be required for an
electric cooking appliance where an approved testing
agency provides documentation that the appliance effluent
contains 5 mg/m3 or less of grease when tested at an
exhaust flow rate of 500 cfm (0.236 m3/s) in accordance
with UL 710B.
Click to expand...

I our local Code official has indicated he will force us to repeat all the tests, manufactures effluent ratings and testing does not apply
 
steveray said:
This is the exception I was speaking of:

507.2 Type I hoods. Type I hoods shall be installed where
cooking appliances produce grease or smoke as a result of
the cooking process. Type I hoods shall be installed over
medium-duty, heavy-duty and extra-heavy-duty cooking
appliances.
Exception: A Type I hood shall not be required for an
electric cooking appliance where an approved testing
agency provides documentation that the appliance effluent
contains 5 mg/m3 or less of grease when tested at an
exhaust flow rate of 500 cfm (0.236 m3/s) in accordance
with UL 710B.
Click to expand...
I wondered about that :) From UL KNLZ.GuideInfo: These appliances have been investigated for the limit of 5 mg/m3 for the emission of grease-laden air to the room ambient in accordance with the recommendations of ANSI/NFPA 96, "Ventilation Control and Fire Protection of Commercial Cooking Operations," using the EPA-202 test method prescribed for cooking appliances provided with integral recirculating air systems. This is certainly an option, but I don't really think panini grills are equipped with what is required to pass the tests necessary to gain a listing. Also of interest, referenced in UL 710B: The basic standard used to investigate products in this category is ANSI/UL 197, "Commercial Electric Cooking Appliances."
 
Tristy said:
I our local Code official has indicated he will force us to repeat all the tests, manufactures effluent ratings and testing does not apply
Click to expand...
On what authority is he doing that? The whole purpose of listing and labeling by independent third party labs is to eliminate the need for testing every installation separately as long as it is installed and used in accordance with instructions.

Right or wrong, we treat paninis as light duty appliances. That gives us some leeway to decide if the situation requires a type I hood or not. 95% of the time there is little to no grease laden vapors. Its just toasting bread, melting cheese and warming already cooked/cured meat. In those cases a type I hood is not required. That drops it down to a type II hood. IMC 507.3 allows for no type II hood over electric appliances if the heat and moisture loads are accounted for and additional general exhaust is provided.

I'm not sure how you could require a Type I hood but not require fire suppression. There's either enough grease produced to require both or not enough grease to require either.
 
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