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Un-Purple Primer for PVC

jar546

jar546

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There is a faint hint of purple color that is more visible.

Visible with a UV light

http://www.herchem.com/specs/UnPurple.pdf

579065D5-C087-47F3-989F-365248640B0E-10273-00000924A492B3BA.jpg
 
globe trekker said:
Jeff,Do you have questions ?

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Click to expand...
Not really. Just trying to get some discussion and don't want to steer it in any one direction. Have you seen this before? Was there a problem with it? What about the picture..comments? Does Un-Purple meet the requirements of the IPC/IRC? etc.
 
What is the testing standard for that "un-purple primer"?
2006 IRC, Section P3003.14.2 allows for a non-purple
primer to be used on the pvc drainage piping
(ASTM D 2855 is the standard).(ASTM D 2564,
CSA B137.3, CSA B181.2 or CSA B181.2). Not
sure what is up with the different standards
in the IRC vs. the IPC.

1st, our AHJ does not provide UV light equipment.
2nd, I typically do inspect every joint. The visual indication
of purple primer on the joints & fittings is an instantaneous
visual detection of compliance and speeds up the inspection
tremendously (for me anyways). Even with purple primer on
the joints, I DO occasionally find leaks. In this AHJ, 99%
of the contractors are always concerned with their schedules,
so the purple primer is a very good workable solution to
keep schedules moving along. To use a non-purple primer
would slow that process down (here). Also, the presence
of purple primer goes to quality of workmanship and a
mutual respect factor.

Jeff,

Thanks for the pictures, ..keep `em coming!
 
I was unaware of this product. My research revealed there is only one manufacturer at this time and it is about 75% higher priced then other primers. A UV light is less than $20.00 bucks and an easy cost for most departments. It meets all the ASTM requirements.

We are under the UPC which does not require purple primer unless the installation standard in the back of the book is specifically adopted. The state did adopt the standard but refuses to enforce the "purple primer" portion so it is a losing battle at this time. If this product was competively priced then I would require the contractors to go that direction because the excuse of purple primer being messy and staining finished products would fly out the window.
 
I met a semi-retired plumber who was allergic to the purple primer, literally broke out in a rash. Had to use an alternate.
 
Note that the link does not reference the IPC or the IRC. Purple primer is required by both!

GT, your reference for the IRC states "A purple primer that a purple primer that conforms to ASTM F 656 shall be applied"

One problem caused by purple prime is that if it is spilled on the concrete floor; it will bleed through tile and lenolyeum (spelt wrong) and discolors the tile.

Purple primer has allways been required by the IRC and IPC and still is up to and including 2009 codes.
 
In my last post "A purple primer that a purple primer that"; might be one reason most "members" don't post; they can't fix errors. Just a thought.
 
Ooops, most "non-paying members" don't post because they can't fix errors. Another check is in the mail.
 
The fuel gas code does not require purple primer which I thought was interesting

G2427.4.1.1 (503.4.1.1) (IFGS) Plastic vent joints.

Plastic pipe and fittings used to vent appliances shall be installed in accordance with the appliance manufacturer’s installation instructions. Where a primer is required, it shall be of a contrasting color.
 
mt,

That's an interesting find!

Come to think of it I've never seen the purple primer on the PVC used to vent/exhaust the furnace.

pc1
 
Pcinspector1 said:
mt, That's an interesting find!

Come to think of it I've never seen the purple primer on the PVC used to vent/exhaust the furnace.

pc1
Click to expand...
Sorry to get a little sidetracked, but I had an installer put a new condensing furnace in my attic and did not primer the drain line. Cost him about 6,000$ in damages.BS
 
There seems to be some dissent on the requiring of purple primer. It seems to me that both IRC and IPC require it. A purple primer that conforms to

ASTM F 656 shall be applied. I guess one could divide the sentence into two meanings, one being the requirement for a purple primer and the other being a requirement for a primer conforming to ASTM F 656. I see it as the primer must be purple and conform to ASTM F 656 not or conform. For those that do require it what do you do when you find an installation without it? This is kind of academic for me now since I am leaving my AHJ but they are supposed to adopt plumbing codes Jan.1 and whoever enforces it will easily find 50% of the plumbing not using it. One observation I will make is that the majority of the installs I see with multiple problems seem to be the ones without purple.
 
For those that do require it what do you do when you find an installation without it?
Click to expand...
We had a commercial project last year where the plumber claimed thata neighboring jurisdiction did not require it, so why are we requiring

it. I showed the plumber the 2006 IPC code section and they went

whining to the BO here, saying that the primer that they used met

the ASTM F 656 standard and the BO let them go forward with it.

If the plumber would have had to remove their non-purple primer

plumbing, it would have cost the project valuable time, having to

redo the rough plumbing, and the plumber for having to do it again.

We typically get purple primer on most pvc installs (not on the

gas exhaust piping though - good find "mtlogcabin"), but every

now and then, plumbers will go to the "I didn't know" statement

and then we look like the bad guys, ..again! How dare we show

them something in the adopted codes and then actually require it!

Sifu,

To answer your question, the question of which primer is allowed

will usually be up to the BO directives. Referring to Section

705.14.2 in the 2006 IPC, and Section P3003.14.2 in the 2006

IRC, the IRC appears to not give a listed standard. The IPC has

the same requirement, but also lists the ASTM F 656 standard,

but, ..is DOES state "purple" in color.

BTW, Congratulations to you! I am glad to see that have

resigned from the jurisdcition where you were employed. Life is

just too short to put up with that much head-ache and

heart-ache on a daily basis.

RANT TIME:

Whether a plumber spills primer on the concrete or other surfaces

and stains it, is not my problem! I cannot enforce "neat and

workmanlike" installations. If I could, I would be tarred, feathered

and crucified for sure. Right now, I am only being verbally abused!

Since there is no requirement for the contractors in this state to

have any type of code books, or to read them, or to actually

apply what's in them, I will continue to ride the train that I am

on. :)

FWIW, all plumbers (and other contractors) are not bad! We have

a few plumbers here that exceptionally good and care about what

they install.

.
 
So why don't they just make the purple less purple? We have very neat plumbers (for plumbers) and no matter how careful they are we still see some drips of that purple crap. Maybe I'm just too logical.
 
= =





"So why don't they just make the purple less purple?......We have very neat plumbers(for plumbers) and no matter how careful they are we still see some drips of that

purple crap.......Maybe I'm just too logical."
Click to expand...
Why can't plumbers NOT spill it ?....The very purple color is for avisual identification [ to all ] and a GREAT assist to the inspecting

parties.........Rather than going to every single joint & every single

fitting to inspect for leaks, ...the purple color is a great contrast

to the white pvc piping and the inspecting party can quickly

determine if a joint has not been primered and quite possibly,

..not even glued!.......IMO, the purple primer DOES serve a valuable

service!

= = =
 
follow manufacture directions??

WHEN USING UNPURPLE PRIMER, THE INSTALLER MUST

HAVE A UV FLASHLIGHT OR OTHER UV LIGHT AVAILABLE

FOR THE INSPECTOR.
 
I get why it's purple, just saying that it could be less purple so it would stain less. Maybe we should only hire inspectors that can see and aren't color blind.

Why not spill it? Because unlike some folks here, the construction industry isn't loaded with folks that are perfect. ANYONE that has used primer and that swab knows that as careful as you are, you will drip..

Anyway this is turned into a silly discusion. The UV stuff is pretty cool but don't see it catching on even though it makes for a very neat looking job.
 
For several years I've allowed "un-purple" to avoid the possibility of stains especially for condensation lines that are not normally under positive pressure. The constractors and plumbers ask first for permission.

"Reason: To introduce an exception in IPC Chapter 7 (IRC Chapter 30), Sanitary Drainage, allowing for the practice of one-step solvent cementing of non-pressure DWV systems 4” and under.



This exception allows for an optional one-step procedure for joining non-pressure DWV PVC piping systems 4” in diameter and below with solvent cement conforming to ASTM D 2564. This method is practiced, and the code should include specific language to indicate when it is acceptable.

Pressure testing completed by NSF International has shown that solvent cement conforming to ASTM D 2564, when used without primer on PVC DWV pipe and fittings, both solid wall and cell core, generates bonding forces well in excess of what is required for these systems. The strength of the joint often exceeds the pipe and fitting pressure capacity.



Bibliography: NSF International report J-00036842.can be found on the PPFA website, www.ppfahome.org//ICC09/PPFA_NSF_J-00036842.pdf



Cost Impact: The code change proposal will not increase the cost of construction."

This 2009/2010 Code Development Cycle Proposed Changes to the 2009 International. Codes

Conditions of listing:

1. UV light source in good working order, must be supplied by the contractor to the code official or his representative.

Hercules® PVC/CPVC Un-Purple Primer

2012 IRC P3003.14.2 Solvent cementing.

Joint surfaces shall be clean and free from moisture. A purple primer that conforms to ASTM F 656 shall be applied. Solvent cement not purple in color and conforming to ASTM D 2564, CSA B137.3 or CSA B181.2 shall be applied to all joint surfaces. The joint shall be made while the cement is wet, and shall be in accordance with ASTM D 2855. Solvent-cement joints shall be permitted above or below ground.



2012 IPC 705.14.2 Solvent cementing.

Joint surfaces shall be clean and free from moisture. A purple primer that conforms to ASTM F 656 shall be applied. Solvent cement not purple in color and conforming to ASTM D 2564, CSA B137.3, CSA B181.2 or CSA B182.1 shall be applied to all joint surfaces. The joint shall be made while the cement is wet and shall be in accordance with ASTM D 2855. Solvent-cement joints shall be permitted above or below ground.

Francis
 
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Is the urinal (???) 2" drain "flat vented" in to the 4" horizontal drain?

Ooooooohhh Jeff, where are you?

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