Iam trying to understand codes. Im looking to build a pole building to commercial code for a woodworking shop. Total sqft 2640. i was told if one area is 2500 sqft in one space i would need sprinklers. So he said i could split an area and put a fire wall up or adjust building size. Luckly a 15x40 section is for truck parking and other storage spaces/office. So it would put me well under my 2500sqft max. What iam wondering is what the wall needs to be made of to get the correct fire rating. Original was 2x6 separating walls with 5/8 drywall both sides all the way to roof. Also can i have doors with a fire rating? I also had plans to add a few high windows to let light threw from garage area. Is that possible? Thanks
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Understanding Codes
- Thread starter pletzer28
- Start date
Welcome to the board
Do you know what building code and edition you have to design to??
sounds like you need an architect to design this
The rated wall will need to be a tested design auch as by UL
any opening/ window in the rated wall will have to have a rated frame and door/glass. Rated glass cost a little
suggest you seek professional help
Do you know what building code and edition you have to design to??
sounds like you need an architect to design this
The rated wall will need to be a tested design auch as by UL
any opening/ window in the rated wall will have to have a rated frame and door/glass. Rated glass cost a little
suggest you seek professional help
fatboy
Administrator
Glad to have you join the forum, welcome. Everything you are asking depends on the local adopted codes, and amendments. So, you really should check in with the local building department and find their answers to your questions. If you have issue with them, ask for code sections, and feel free to post back with any questions.
FYI, 2009 IBC;
[F] 903.2.4.1Woodworking operations. An automatic
sprinkler system shall be provided throughout all Group
F-1 occupancy fire areas that contain woodworking
operations in excess of 2,500 square feet (232m2) in area
which generate finely divided combustible waste or use
finely divided combustible materials.
I would suggest a trip to the building department, followed with a trip to a design professional. JMHO
Good luck,and again, welcome.
FYI, 2009 IBC;
[F] 903.2.4.1Woodworking operations. An automatic
sprinkler system shall be provided throughout all Group
F-1 occupancy fire areas that contain woodworking
operations in excess of 2,500 square feet (232m2) in area
which generate finely divided combustible waste or use
finely divided combustible materials.
I would suggest a trip to the building department, followed with a trip to a design professional. JMHO
Good luck,and again, welcome.
I will look into an architect. I have a building company that is putting up the building and i was going to take over once the skin was up and water tight with no floor. Iam new to this. Just want to understand things before they give me a big number to have the interior done by them.
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
Just because you have a woodworking area does not automatically mean you need a sprinkler system. The reason is in the last part of the code section fatboy posted
which generate finely divided combustible waste or use
finely divided combustible materials
Combustible Dust is defined as follows
COMBUSTIBLE DUST. Finely divided solid material that is 420 microns or less in diameter and which, when dispersed in air in the proper proportions, could be ignited by a flame, spark or other source of ignition. Combustible dust will pass through a U.S. No. 40 standard sieve.
In the real world combustible dust is a reality in most wood working facilities but there are exceptions out there. I wood suggest you have an Architect on board with your project also. Architects can be like DR's some are GP's and some specialize in certain areas. Ask about there experience and how it would relate to your facility and its operation before choosing one.
Welcome to the board and good luck with your project and feel free to seek information here
which generate finely divided combustible waste or use
finely divided combustible materials
Combustible Dust is defined as follows
COMBUSTIBLE DUST. Finely divided solid material that is 420 microns or less in diameter and which, when dispersed in air in the proper proportions, could be ignited by a flame, spark or other source of ignition. Combustible dust will pass through a U.S. No. 40 standard sieve.
In the real world combustible dust is a reality in most wood working facilities but there are exceptions out there. I wood suggest you have an Architect on board with your project also. Architects can be like DR's some are GP's and some specialize in certain areas. Ask about there experience and how it would relate to your facility and its operation before choosing one.
Welcome to the board and good luck with your project and feel free to seek information here
PLTEZ
I guess the question is what do you define your woodworking operation to be???
are you sawmilling, are you sanding, are you just taking some store bought wood and hammering it together and nothing else??
also to the group
1. in the past if each piece of machinery that produced dust had a collection system did that negate requiements, and is it still there??
2. if a person has say a 2600 sq ft so called woodworking facility and say has only one machine that produces dust, does that negate requiements??
I guess the question is what do you define your woodworking operation to be???
are you sawmilling, are you sanding, are you just taking some store bought wood and hammering it together and nothing else??
also to the group
1. in the past if each piece of machinery that produced dust had a collection system did that negate requiements, and is it still there??
2. if a person has say a 2600 sq ft so called woodworking facility and say has only one machine that produces dust, does that negate requiements??
Pletzer28 - Did "He" (who ever he is) use the wording of 'Fire Wall' or did "He" say fire-resistive construction. There are a number of different types of fire resistive walls that are required, or permitted, by different portions of the code depending on application.
A true Fire-wall is intended to essentially create separate buildings and would need to extend to a point 30" above the roof. That is probably not what was intended. More than likely the intent was meant to be more like a fire-barrier wall, to distinguish separte fire areas. You will need to contact the local jurisidction as to what fire rating of construction would be required for this separation wall. it is possible that nothing more than a one-hour fire rated wall is required. If that is the case, it will be little different than what you had intended to install in the first place. In most cases protected openings are permitted in fire-barrier walls. For one-hour walls, one-hour fire-rated assemblies are usually required. In two-hour walls, 90-minute fire-rated opening protection is normally required.
I wouod suggest that installing the fire-rated construction and sprinklers may be a more prudent approach than hiring a fire engineer to prove that you can get by without one. In addition you will have added fire-protection for your operation.
A true Fire-wall is intended to essentially create separate buildings and would need to extend to a point 30" above the roof. That is probably not what was intended. More than likely the intent was meant to be more like a fire-barrier wall, to distinguish separte fire areas. You will need to contact the local jurisidction as to what fire rating of construction would be required for this separation wall. it is possible that nothing more than a one-hour fire rated wall is required. If that is the case, it will be little different than what you had intended to install in the first place. In most cases protected openings are permitted in fire-barrier walls. For one-hour walls, one-hour fire-rated assemblies are usually required. In two-hour walls, 90-minute fire-rated opening protection is normally required.
I wouod suggest that installing the fire-rated construction and sprinklers may be a more prudent approach than hiring a fire engineer to prove that you can get by without one. In addition you will have added fire-protection for your operation.
mark handler
SAWHORSE
Look into an architect.pletzer28 said:
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
Not unless it is a different fire areacda said:
[F] FIRE AREA. The aggregate floor area enclosed and bounded by fire walls, fire barriers , exterior walls or horizontal assemblies of a building. Areas of the building not provided with surrounding walls shall be included in the fire area if such areas are included within the horizontal projection of the roof or floor next above.
ok how about these two questions:::
1. in the past if each piece of machinery that produced dust had a collection system did that negate requiements, and is it still there??
2. if a person has say a 2600 sq ft so called woodworking facility and say has only one machine that produces dust, does that negate requiements??
1. in the past if each piece of machinery that produced dust had a collection system did that negate requiements, and is it still there??
2. if a person has say a 2600 sq ft so called woodworking facility and say has only one machine that produces dust, does that negate requiements??
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
An F-1 occupancy states
Woodworking (cabinet)
Todays cabinet shops primarily use fiber board and thus wood produce combustible dust very easily and in large quantities
1903.2 Dust control.
Equipment or machinery located inside buildings that generates or emits combustible dust shall be provided with an approved dust collection and exhaust system installed in accordance with Chapter 13 and the International Mechanical Code . Equipment or systems that are used to collect, process or convey combustible dusts shall be provided with an approved explosion control system.
Woodworking (cabinet)
Todays cabinet shops primarily use fiber board and thus wood produce combustible dust very easily and in large quantities
Still required
1903.2 Dust control.
Equipment or machinery located inside buildings that generates or emits combustible dust shall be provided with an approved dust collection and exhaust system installed in accordance with Chapter 13 and the International Mechanical Code . Equipment or systems that are used to collect, process or convey combustible dusts shall be provided with an approved explosion control system.
Not that I can find
well bacically taking raw lumber to size i need for a project puting it together to make a profit. I dont understand in such a small building that i would have to have sprinker. Iam not mass producing cheap box cabinets. Projects will be custom made to order. I will be having a central dust collecton with more then required cfm. If i were to not have a customer come into the place or have an employee someday i wouldent need any of this i can just put up building and it dosent have to be to comemcial code. This building will be put up on A-2 once rezoned. Not sure if this makes a differnce.
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
That is why you need some help and the code officials need a better understanding of your operation and the materials used. Unfortuantly most of us do not have the specific knowledge to make a determination whether a paticular wood working operation produces combustible dust or not.
So we tend to nerr on the most restrictive unless you can demonstrate otherwise.
A chain saw carver will put off almost no combustible dust. Rough sawn lumber operations put off almost no combustible dust. It is finish sanding and fine tooth saws little that will produce combustible dust.
So we tend to nerr on the most restrictive unless you can demonstrate otherwise.
A chain saw carver will put off almost no combustible dust. Rough sawn lumber operations put off almost no combustible dust. It is finish sanding and fine tooth saws little that will produce combustible dust.
Zoning has no bearing on fire resistive requirements. Fire-resistive requirements are not based on access by customers. Fire-resistive requirements are intended to protect anyone who accesses these premises, workers, owners, customers, etc. In addition, they are intended to protect the product, the structure and the neighbors that could be affected by a fire or an explosion. It has been determined, by persons a lot more educated in these matters than I, that a wood processing occupancy that has 2500 square feet or more, and that produces fine airborn dust particles presents a potential problem that needs to be addressed.
Therefore the code has provided a solution. Solution 'A') Provide separate fire areas and limit them to less than 2500 square feet each. Solution 'B') Install a fire sprinkler system. The code does not always offer Solution 'C', 'D' and 'F'.
You still have not identified "HE" that has been giving you advice. If "HE" is not a code official or a fire expert, then he may not have adequate knowledge to be advising on these matters.
Therefore the code has provided a solution. Solution 'A') Provide separate fire areas and limit them to less than 2500 square feet each. Solution 'B') Install a fire sprinkler system. The code does not always offer Solution 'C', 'D' and 'F'.
You still have not identified "HE" that has been giving you advice. If "HE" is not a code official or a fire expert, then he may not have adequate knowledge to be advising on these matters.
steveray
SAWHORSE
Most likely a fire barrier could be constructed out of 5/8" drywall and traditional framing...no biggie....but your design professional will help you there....
Mech
Registered User
A "design professional" includes engineers too. They do not necessarily have to be from your state, but they must be licensed in your state.