• Welcome to The Building Code Forum

    Your premier resource for building code knowledge.

    This forum remains free to the public thanks to the generous support of our Sawhorse Members and Corporate Sponsors. Their contributions help keep this community thriving and accessible.

    Want enhanced access to expert discussions and exclusive features? Learn more about the benefits here.

    Ready to upgrade? Log in and upgrade now.

unlisted microbrewery burners

K

klarenbeek

REGISTERED
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
Messages
505
Location
Sioux Falls, SD
A local pub wants to start brewing their own beer, so they ordered a small brewing setup, which basically amounts to 2 large kettles- about 40 gal. each- sitting on a burner assembly. The burner assembly is basically two open burners mounted in an aluminum frame. The gas valve, spark igniter, and control panel are listed, but neither the burners or the assembly as a whole are not. Anybody else run into a setup like this?

It sounds like the burner setup is a custom built assembly, which makes it understandable why the entire assembly is'nt listed. I would probably be more willing to accept if at least the burners themselves were listed.
 
looking on my commercial appliance parts book, I see no mention of listed or classified burner parts.
 
Does your adminstrative section include industrial equipment within the scope of the building code or is that an issue for OSHA or state equivalent. In Virginia that equipment is outside the scope of the building code.
 
I don't know that I would consider 2 burners for brewing an "industrial" site.

As to the original question, tough one. Mechanical, Fuel Gas Codes speak to listed equipment, but having several in my jurisdiction, fortunately started under legacy codes under someone else as AHJ, I haven't had to make the decision.

We have not had any issues with the ones in use, and there is a multitude of them in CO, but............guess you could always fall back on alternate methods, depending on your comfort level.
 
Well, we are running in to this issue and it looks like it didn't get a whole lot of discussion here.

We have a local micro-brewery that has 2 large kettles with a 440k burner and an 880k burner. Contacted the mfg. and they basically said that they buy the burner cast part from china then drill it out and put in their own orifices for use.

Not listed, not tested other than that it works.

My reading of the IFGC and definition of an "appilance" would lead me to conclude that this needs to be listed and labeled.

Thoughts??
 
$ = = $

Have the Fire Chief or Fire Marshall in your AHJ review it and possibly

approve without the listing.

$ = = $
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Show me you not only took bu passed the tests required

SECTION 623 (IFGC) COOKING APPLIANCES

623.1 Cooking appliances. Cooking appliances that are designed for permanent installation, including ranges, ovens,

stoves, broilers, grills, fryers, griddles, hot plates and barbecues, shall be tested in accordance with ANSI Z21.1, ANSI

Z21.58 or ANSI Z83.11 and shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s installation instructions.

Had a wonderful Indian Cusine using Tandoor ceramic cookers that came two ways.

1. Listed Tested and so certified.

2. Not listed Not Tested and No verification.

Guess which one the owner installed and significantly altered fullo o holes and re-routed the gas through..

No 2 the cheaper. ?? The Price is Right the compliance is missing.....
 
And I new this was here but need to find it - General is always a good place to look

301.3 Listed and labeled.

Appliances << Yeah it be one of them >>> regulated by this code (623) shall be listed and labeled for the application in which they are used unless otherwise approved in accordance with Section 105. The approval of unlisted appliances in accordance with Section 105 shall be based upon approved engineering evaluation.

301.4 Labeling. Labeling shall be in accordance with the procedures set forth in Sections 301.4.1 through 301.4.2.3. < there's a bunch of them >>>

So the above postings' Tandoor Pots were removed
 
Turkey Cookers are listed in the WalMart Caming section as FIRE STARTERS.

The Building Official can approve anything........

APPROVED. Acceptable to the building official or authority having jurisdiction.

Trust but verify
 
Architect1281 said:
Show me you not only took bu passed the tests required SECTION 623 (IFGC) COOKING APPLIANCES

623.1 Cooking appliances. Cooking appliances that are designed for permanent installation, including ranges, ovens,

stoves, broilers, grills, fryers, griddles, hot plates and barbecues, shall be tested in accordance with ANSI Z21.1, ANSI

Z21.58 or ANSI Z83.11 and shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s installation instructions.

Had a wonderful Indian Cusine using Tandoor ceramic cookers that came two ways.

1. Listed Tested and so certified.

2. Not listed Not Tested and No verification.

Guess which one the owner installed and significantly altered fullo o holes and re-routed the gas through..

No 2 the cheaper. ?? The Price is Right the compliance is missing.....
Click to expand...
I am familiar with 623 but these burners aren't really "permanent". they could be moved outside or to a new location pretty easily.

I think they should be listed and labeled. I did put a request out to the FM to get their opinion.

I'm not real comfortable with a modificaiton without some sort of documentation of testing or substantial equivalency to the UL testing.
 
righter101 said:
The turkey cooker you show is CSA certified, but listed for outdoor use only.The burners wer are looking at have no listing whatsoever. Pretty much on par with home made moonshine equipment.

Used indoors. That is the concern.
Click to expand...
righter101,

I want to understand you concern.

Is it with using an outside burner inside?

The burner in question is a 8" to 14" ring with anywhere from 20 to 40 little one torch flames that make up a burner very hot when all of them are burning at once on the ring?

I think these burners have been around for a while and are used in home brewing and wok cooking.

I don't know of any problems and I know they do a good job to heat up a lot of water in a very short time.
 
Rider Rick said:
righter101,I want to understand you concern.

Is it with using an outside burner inside?

The burner in question is a 8" to 14" ring with anywhere from 20 to 40 little one torch flames that make up a burner very hot when all of them are burning at once on the ring?

I think these burners have been around for a while and are used in home brewing and wok cooking.

I don't know of any problems and I know they do a good job to heat up a lot of water in a very short time.
Click to expand...
My concern is that it is unlisted. The listing and testing procedures are supposed to be our guide that a certain set of standards has been met for the equipment.

In the event of equipment failure involving propane, the consequences can be deadly and catastrophic. The codes seem written with a litany of exceptions so I was thinking that if some unlisted equipment was ok, it would say so by exception.

My concern is for the safety of the occupants and possibly the nearby buisnesses.
 
Righter101,

I have felt the same way about propane where because it's heavier than air and collects in low areas if there is a leak.

But if you do a gas line leak test and there is an exhaust hood and make-up air I would approve it.

But this is me.

I own three of these kind of burners and have used them and I don't have any issues. It is a very basic design for heating water and have not had of any problems.

I know this is a common sense approach and not everyone in the building code enforcement feels comfortable with it but you are on an island and could to be a little flexible with the code if you wish to make this kind of build work if it is safe.
 
If dealing with propane, maybe have a propane company check it

See what they think and assure it has the correct jets
 
= = | = =

In this jurisdiction, I would defer to the FCO.......It is his resources that will

respond to an event [ when / if there is one ].......If he believes the burners

to be safe enough to use without a listing, then he can approve them.

= = | = =
 
but it kind of falls under some other code than the IFC

Just because fire is involved does not always mean the fire department is the most knowledgeable
 
~ ~ | ~ ~



"but it kind of falls under some other code than the IFC.Just because fire is involved does not always mean the fire department is the most knowledgeable"
Click to expand...
Agreed, but they WILL be the ones to respond, and IMO,it just makes sense [ in this jurisdiction ] for him to approve

its use, ...even without a listing.

~ ~ | ~ ~
 
The situation was resolved here by the owner hiring a mechanical engineer to design the system, which included an exhaust hood and makeup air. He submitted stamped drawings, and the system was installed to his design.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top