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Unlisted Smoke Alarms

mark handler

mark handler

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So. CA
Unlisted Smoke Alarms
Download the Letter

https://strategicfire.org/wp-conten...0-unlisted-smoke-alarm-letter-09.24.19pdf.pdf

It was brought to The Vision 20/20 Project’s attention by a smoke alarm manufacturer that there were smoke and CO alarms being sold on Amazon that had not undergone third-party testing to determine if they met the requirements of UL 217 Standard for Smoke Alarms or UL 2034 Standard for Single and Multiple Station Carbon Monoxide Alarms. In response, The Vision 20/20 Project is publishing a letter asking the fire safety community to call upon Amazon and other online retailers to stop this practice. You can download the letter, along with a list of smoke and CO alarms identified by the smoke alarm manufacturer, by clicking here.https://strategicfire.org/wp-conten...0-unlisted-smoke-alarm-letter-09.24.19pdf.pdf
 
I just moved this thread to the top where it should be. It appears as though Amazon has pulled a lot of these but that does not mean others have them in stock and are still using them.
 
mark handler said:
Sometimes the CSFM labels are fake
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I didn't know.....I suppose I should have. As Tommy (the oldest Henderson boy) said, "Here's the thing about that", Rarely do I remove a smoke alarm from the wall or ceiling. I can't reach most of them without a dining room chair.

We require smoke and co alarms with every permit no matter what it is.....plumbing, mechanical, electrical, building.....every permit. I spend an inordinate amount of time on smoke alarms. We provide a flyer when we issue the permit that explains where to install the alarms. Contractors never mention this to the owners.

A simple two trip permit turns into five or more trips. Take a re-roof for example. There's a sheathing and final inspection required. At inspection the owner isn't there so I can't get in. I leave a notice asking to get in and a flyer. Another inspection is requested and I find the alarms on the kitchen counter. I come back a fourth time and the alarms are installed incorrectly.

Forget about hard wiring/interconnecting unless the ceiling was torn out or the dwelling was rewired. If the alarms are installed at the first attempt to inspect them....it passes whether they are installed right or wrong, the assumption being that they were existing nonconforming. Ya that sounds wrong right. It's AHJ policy.

Were it up to me, I would be satisfied with the method chosen by LA City. LA City gets a notarized document signed by the owner that there are code compliant alarms. That's a change from how I felt about this years ago. I have seen the affidavit posted on several of my jobs. The contractor took a chance that I would be okay with it. I wasn't and when I did get in, there was no alarms.

Years later I have become a smoke alarm inspector. I am tired of hearing the derision from owners. If they will not take the simple step of installing alarms, who am I to force them? Not only would I accept a notarized affidavit, it should be mandatory, I don't inspect them......you promise that you have them. Many of the people won't know what they are signing because English is not their language. Maybe there should be pictures.....wait a minute.....the flyer that I created has pictures......that had no effect.

An inspector [since retired] that I know would start every inspection with the smoke alarms. If the alarms failed inspection, the inspection stopped. If the inspection stopped so did the work or perhaps the final payment. That former inspector got away with it because he is a jerk and the office manager was afraid of him. I can satisfy the jerk component but nobody fears me.
 
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but nobody fears me.

I bet you’re like my neighbors dog, an english mastiff. Big dog ... huge. Bark that rattles windows. But once you rub her tummy she is friendly as an old spinster aunt with thick red lipstick.
 
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We use an affidavit for the smoke/CO alarms that the property owner has to sign. Ours doesn't have pictures, but it clearly explains the location and listing requirements. It also clearly pins the liability and responsibility on the property owner, not the contractor, and definitely not the tenant. With Covid we have made the affidavit required as part of the paperwork for every permit, a practice I truly hope we keep in place permanently.
 
Yup, there's a lot of that on instagram and youtube also. These guys focus so much on telling a great story, pulling all the stops to figure out what neat psychology tricks to use to sell their product. They have no real interest in anyone's safety. You can bet those products aren't in their own homes.
 
Well now that someone brought this thread out of the basement...I wonder if Amazon is still selling unlisted smoke and CO alarms? A recent development at the AHJ where I used to work has inspectors taking the word of the owner/contractor that alarms are present. The inspector asks the question, "Are alarms present?" and if the answer is yes....that's a done deal.
 
mtlogcabin said:
We smoke test every one of them in residential units at the time of final inspection
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I am not aware of a code that requires the alarms to operate. Not that I disagree with your approach…. It’s just that I find it to be impractical.
 
ICE said:
I am not aware of a code that requires the alarms to operate. Not that I disagree with your approach…. It’s just that I find it to be impractical.
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With a smoke stick, it's fast and easy.
I carry a stick on every inspection to press the pretty little test button. At this point it's routine.
Each bad detector I find motivates me to continue this approach. I can't promise I've saved a life yet, but I've certainly got a lot of detectors fixed.

Note: every detector sold in California has a 10 year warranty. Just call the vendor to claim it: they don't even ask for the detector back (Kiddee/BRK and Universal at least).
 
ICE said:
Well now that someone brought this thread out of the basement...I wonder if Amazon is still selling unlisted smoke and CO alarms? The inspector asks the question, "Are alarms present?" and if the answer is yes....that's a done deal.
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What do you think? Yeah, yes.
 
iOne said:
I carry a stick on every inspection to press the pretty little test button.
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At least you know that the button works. When smoke and CO alarms became a thing for the building inspector to verify, inspection times went up a bunch. The contractors ignore the alarms and don’t mention it to the owners. The inspector shows up for a final inspection on anything and win lose or draw, the alarms are wrong. The alarms are missing or installed at the wrong location. A reroof final ends up with two more inspections for alarms.

So many inspectors ask the owner if there are alarms. If the owner says yes, the inspector takes them for their word. Jurisdictions now accept an affidavit as proof. I have been handed the affidavit and then said , “Let’s take a look.” Maybe one alarm in the hallway or maybe none.

Where I have worked the inspector was responsible to verify the alarms. I didn’t push a test button. I didn’t check expiration dates. I did require them in the correct locations.

I am curious to see data that documents our enforcement of the alarms. If it did make a difference and reduce deaths, the curve is inverting now that the jurisdictions grew tired of dealing with it and resorted to the ineffectual affidavits.

See post #6…. I was an inspector then.
 
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They should just accept a letter saying we did it all to code for everything then....Think of the labor savings.....We can all just sit in the office and BS...Like most people think we already do...
 
Well, I heard a new one today, one inspector says it is required to be a “verbally” audible co detector? Now I’ve not heard that outa R315? I’m not sure where he’s getting this from yet as I’m off this week but curious if anyone’s ever seen this? If so, what language should be applied? Really like the affidavit answer, some tall ceilings at times! Thx! Good to be back!
 
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