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Urinal required in a single occupancy toilet for "B" occupancy?

Discussion in 'Commercial Plumbing Codes' started by JPohling, Oct 2, 2018.

  1. JPohling

    JPohling Sawhorse

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    We have a plan checker that is insisting that because the California Plumbing Code table 422.1 indicates that a urinal is required for 1-100 men for a B occupancy that even when a single room occupancy toilet room is allowed to serve both employees and customers that this room also is required to have a urinal.

    I cannot find any language or exception to this.

    What do you good people think?
     
  2. mark handler

    mark handler Sawhorse

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    The closest thing to a waver is Footnote # 3, but it is for A and E occupancies. OL< 50
     
  3. mtlogcabin

    mtlogcabin Sawhorse

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    I believe he is correct when reviewing the entire table there are occupancies that do not require urinals and occupancies that have different ratios.
    Look at footnote 4 where it clarifies urinals are not a substitute for water closets they are in addition to

    The IPC puts WC and urinals in the same column and then refers you to this section
    419.2 Substitution for water closets.
    In each bathroom or toilet room, urinals shall not be substituted for more than 67 percent of the required water closets in assembly and educational occupancies. Urinals shall not be substituted for more than 50 percent of the required water closets in all other occupancies.
     
    Pcinspector1 likes this.
  4. ADAguy

    ADAguy Sawhorse

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    Are troughs still legal?
     
  5. JPohling

    JPohling Sawhorse

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    I guess I see no real advantage to having a urinal in a single occupancy toilet room in terms of fixture count. Only using one at a time.
    Never had this "requirement" enforced before.
     
  6. north star

    north star Sawhorse

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    * = * = *
    I do not believe that they are, because of privacy issues, plus
    there aren't any ADA compliant troughs.......Available, Yes !
    Legal, No !


    * = * = *
     
  7. JPohling

    JPohling Sawhorse

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    How is it that we need to label the single occupancy room gender neutral then
    place a gender specific fixture within the room?

    Seems like everyone is in agreement that a urinal is a requirement for a single
    occupancy toilet room in a B occupancy? It specifically states "one toilet facility".
    It does not say "one toilet and a urinal facility".
     
  8. north star

    north star Sawhorse

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    & = &

    JPohling,

    IMO, ...the Codes are not [ yet ] synonymous with the current cultural
    environment.......In the real world, there is no Gender Neutral
    designation !.......Either you is, or you ain't.


    & = &
     
  9. ADAguy

    ADAguy Sawhorse

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    But "if" you are, then what?
     
  10. north star

    north star Sawhorse

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    # ~ #

    Are what ?.........Are a "man", or are a "woman" ?

    # ~ #
     
  11. ADAguy

    ADAguy Sawhorse

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    some are "both" with "dual" fixtures (smiling)
     
  12. JPohling

    JPohling Sawhorse

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    The real question is who believes that the definition of a "single toilet facility" contains a urinal. Other than Palo Alto that is................
     
  13. north star

    north star Sawhorse

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    ! = ! = !

    ADAguy,

    I am going to have to pull the "I don't know about this stuff" card on you.

    If some are both with dual fixtures, (1) Are both sets of [ plbg. ] fixtures

    fully operational & capable of fulfilling their intended, ORIGINAL birthed
    design, or (2) Are some of the dual fixtures for marketing \ confusion

    purposes, or other ? :confused:

    ! = ! = !
     
  14. mark handler

    mark handler Sawhorse

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    The term "single toilet facility" is not defined in the codes, But IMPO a "single toilet facility", that is designed for use by no more than one person at a time, can contain a toilet and urinal. it is just used by one person at a time.
     
  15. mtlogcabin

    mtlogcabin Sawhorse

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    Our state amended that table and only requires the urinal in single user toilet facilities where food and drink are served.
     
  16. Yikes

    Yikes Gold Member

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    California identifies a single-user facility as a "toilet facility with no more than one water closet and one urinal with a locking mechanism controlled by the user".
    https://www.documents.dgs.ca.gov/dsa/bulletins/BU_17-01-01.pdf
    Therefore, it is not useful to argue that the presence of both toilet and urinal negates the purpose of a gender neutral single user facility.
     
  17. ADAguy

    ADAguy Sawhorse

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    Convenience vs plumbing? Kilt vs zipper? Depends on you individual plumbing.
     
  18. Pcinspector1

    Pcinspector1 Platinum Member

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    So if you were wanting to remove this requirement, what would change and how could you word it?

    Whats the reasoning for this? This is goofy.

    A toilet takes care of most users I would think?
     
  19. mtlogcabin

    mtlogcabin Sawhorse

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    Sanitation would be my first guess Saving water would be my 2nd guess
     
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  20. ADAguy

    ADAguy Sawhorse

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    HMMMM? both make sense but a urinal could be waterless vs a toilet.
     

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